Best of Luck John. It's an intriguing topic for sure. The whole concept that these 'devout people' are willing to support violence (ie the war), pray for the harm of others (ie gays, freedom of choice supporters) or worse -- actually kill and mutilate these 'sinners' themselves (ie abortion clinic bombings) and then stand in front of a cross and cry that it was "God's Will" is both astounding and hypocritical, in my opinion.

We hear some westerners laugh at things like the muslim belief that dying for their cause means going to heaven and being served by a harem of virgins. Yet right here in our country there are people who believe if they put a bullet into a doctor's head because he or she gave a woman a choice of what do with their body -- they'll be that much closer to God when they go to heaven. These are the people that frighten me.

T

Good luck John, hope it goes very well for you. When is your documentary due out? And will it be released in the movies?

I'm shooting a small film myself nothing special. It's a Superman film based on key moments from supes life. But once that is done im making a full lenght 90min movie. I'm going back to old school horror on this flick. I have the idea of what is it is about and what I want. All I need to do now is write my script.

Just make sure you're back for my wedding on May 19th, bitch!

Best of luck John... sounds like an interesting topic. Keep us updated.

Good luck John. You have set your sights high for your first project. This is a complex issue.

Hey Good Luck John, I'm a filmmaker living in Panama (Central America), I've been listening to the show for such a long time, but I never post because I dont have access to the internet, I just go to an internet cafe, download the show and put it on my mp3 player. I'm looking forward to the doc and keep on the great work with the show, episode vol.116 was great, I'll download the new episode tonight.

This is such a great idea for a documentary, I'm amazed no one's already done it! I'm really looking forward to seeing this.

Best of luck!

If you want some help in the US let me know. Be careful though you do not want to make the Jihad think they have a formidable enemy any more than they already do. To be honest American Christians do not care because we realize they are fighting us because of their own ignorance as well as delusions created by their pestilent lives.

We approve of the war because:

1. It's what we are good at
2. Political, global, and economic reasons.
3. Doing the right thing. (This opinion varies)

I could go on and on but will leave that for your documentry, good luck.

tom,

your argument is absolutely absurd. unfortunately there are "christians" who do horrible things, supposedly in the name of Jesus because they think in their demented way they are doing good be preventing evil. but to insinuate that christians support bombing abortion clinics, harming gays etc. is as inaccurate as saying that all muslims supported driving planes into the world trade centre. unfortunately, it seems as if every religion has it's share of whack jobs and christianity is no different from any other religion. but you're painting alot of people with a very wide and inaccurate brush when you make statements like you made about christians advocating violence against anyone who doesn't hold the same moral convictions as they do.

Wow John, you know shit about Christianity and it is obvious from your concept. I think you should try to learn a bit about the idea of the moral application of violence. If you think all violence is the same, and it seems you do from your concept, then I question your capacity for critical thinking. Damn, I hate to say it that way because you really do seem like a nice guy, sorry man. Next, real Christians are not pacifists in the sense you are attributing to them this is a common misconception held by people who don’t know anything about Christians [I really don't care if some of your "best friends are Christians"]. Pacifism [all violence is wrong] is an immoral belief system and real Christians believe it is good and right to fight against evil [and even, as means of self defense, go to war] so do the Jews from which Christian beliefs have sprung. This is why the Bible is filled with wars against injustice—sometimes the Hebrews get it, sometimes they give it. All the nonviolence stuff is more about interpersonal behavior something the Jews of the time were losing sight of. Try to consider the idea that the preservation of societies by secular governments [by means of the law] can, at times, supersede the religious beliefs of its people. [Yes, this idea existed in the 1st century and before] For instance I may forgive someone who murders my mom [something Jesus would advocate] but society must protect itself and exact punishment against them as crimes are committed against the state and not the individual. Jesus never once condemns this idea, in fact he implies repeatedly and flat out states at least once that he had come to fulfill the law not destroy it. The law he is talking about advocated lots of what you would probably call “violent behavior”. He wants peace, but he understands violence by the state against those who would harm society is good. If you read the New Testament [the Book of Matthew, I think] you will find Jesus meets a Roman soldier and never once tells him to leave the army or condemns him in fact he heals his ill servant. If you read the Bible cover to cover you will see that the book is full of this kind of thing. This is important because it indicates the idea that people, as early as 2000 years ago, could believe it is important to love your neighbor and be nice to people but also understand that their government might still need to wage war, or use violence, for their protection if it is necessary. It isn't a contradiction to any intelligent person, even in this day and age. Sorry man, but you have no real story here.

Well, if you are going to do this though try to talk to people who would likely support the War and are religious not the critics of these things or fake religious people. Try Chuck Colson, or Dennis Prager [yes, I know he is Jewish] both are more than capable of giving you a great religious/Christian view point.

Mike

Halcyon (Mike) Oh my, what a scary fucking loon you are mate!

good luck John...do your thing!
but come on now...that title "The Prince of Peace - The God of War" is so over the top lol

i know it's probably just a working title...but still

other than that...i really hope that it's gonna be a good film

I need to go with Halcyon/Mike on this one. Here's an excerpt from an article by Dennis Prager available at Townhall:

"An act that is wrong is wrong for everyone in the same situation, but almost no act is wrong in every situation. Sexual intercourse in marriage is sacred; when violently coerced, it is rape. Truth telling is usually right, but if, during World War II, Nazis asked you where a Jewish family was hiding, telling them the truth would have been evil.

So, too, it is the situation that determines when killing is wrong. That is why the Ten Commandments says "Do not murder," not "Do not kill." Murder is immoral killing, and it is the situation that determines when killing is immoral and therefore murder. Pacifism, the belief that it is wrong to take a life in every situation, is based on the mistaken belief that absolute morality means "in every situation" rather than "for everyone in the same situation." For this reason, it has no basis in Judeo-Christian values, which holds that there is moral killing (self-defense, defending other innocents, taking the life of a murderer) and immoral killing (intentional murder of an innocent individual, wars of aggression, terrorism, etc.)."

Hey Mr. Stay Puft (who also just happens to have the exact same IP address as Halcyon/Mike)

You are dead incorrect when you say "For this reason, it has no basis in Judeo-Christian values"

The Christian Church was strictly pacsifist for the first 400 years of its existence until the Roman Emperor Constantine did an about face and declared it the offical religion of the Roamn Empire and started enlisting Christians into his army to fight his wars.

Also, keep in mind that Jesus lived under probably the most evil empire in the history of mankind that committed the worst and most vile violations in history to those it Subjegated. And yet, Jesus never once advocated violence against them. As a matter of fact, Jesus often showed great kindness to Romans in the face of their oppression. The people wanted a military revolution to free them from Roman control... but Jesus denied it.

However... I'm just playing devils advocate here (pardon the pun). There are good arguments on both sides of this issue and it is a converation that I believe is worth having.

Anyone on either side just just sits back and says "The other side just dosen't know what it's talkng about" is just being willfully ignorant in my opinion.

Uh, we don't have the same IP address. At least we shouldn't. That was a honest response, John. Mr Stay Puft is his own man!

Sorry, but Prager is correct when he says pacifism has no place in Judeo-Christian values. Your examples of Christ opposing the uprising against the Romans does not illustrate a doctrine of non-violence. It shows that Christ was elevating the virtue of forgiveness. When he preaches that we should turn the other cheek, he is teaching us not to retaliate out of vengeance. That is God's department. The problem is that absolute pacifism rests mainly on overemphasized passages from the Book of Matthew, while ignoring Peter, Paul and practically the rest of the Bible.

As for Church history, you are correct in saying that the Church as an institution has supported the just war since the fourth century. There were many reasons why Christians were not enlisted into the Roman army before that: The Romans were suspicious of the early Christians and emporer-worship went against their beliefs. The evidence that an opposition to bloodshed kept Christians from military service is inconclusive. Many of the early Church fathers approved of the just war.

I stress "just war". St Thomas Aquinas defined a just war as declared by a rightful authority, having a just cause, and having a rightful intention.

Again John, note, I am not Halcyon/Mike. I think you have a valid project here. But I believe, as does Prager, C.S. Lewis, and many others, that Christians who believe that all war is bad are mistaking the liberal-humanist view of war, which insists that war is inhuman, for the Christian view, which distinguishes from just and unjust wars.

Note: I didn't footnote anything, but can.

As long as John presents both sides of the fence, as a Christian, I have no problem with this. I would think it would be a coup if John got an interview with Abdul Rahman, but I don't think it'll happen. Rahman, if any of you know, was the former Muslim who converted to Christianity and faced death in Afganistan until a few days ago for such beliefs. He was set free only due to pleas from the UN, Amesty In'tl and the Vatican.

There is a time for war, and a time for peace.

Now, you might ask me if I support the war in Iraq. While I believe that the world is better off without Saddam Hussein, I also have to ask, what about other dictators who commit genocide against thier own citizens? Why aren't we concerned about North Korea, who just the other day threatened the US with nukes? When we (US) invaded Iraq looking for WMD we weren't sure they had them; but North Korea didn't hide WMD- they threatened South Korea and China at the time. I thought we should have went to war- but we are in the wrong country.

As for Tom, There are individuals who will twist any faith around to suit a delusional belief, whether it be the Holy Bible (cults, the KKK, abortion bombers) the Quaraan (terrorists) and so on. Not one Christian I know advocates violence against gays. Yes, God spoke out against that lifestyle in the Good Book. But he is also the one who judged them (ex. Sodom & Gormmorah) - not man.

You may see the real Christians protesting peacefully in front of an abortion clinic. You won't see them on the evening news ...but you will see the more sensational who fit in a stereotype whether it be the "Fire N Brimstone" group of three, Or you will see/hear about the person who assults and kills the abortion doctors.

The death penalty: Christian Right/Secular Left and vice versa seems to be a factor. I strongly disagree. The real issue is the people who commit the crimes and in which states. If the state has a death penalty, and such criminals break the law and are convicted, well- they could get straightened up. They could make thier peace. They could show remorse.

They still broke the law and murdered somebody. When people chooose to break the law, they also choose to be punished under the rules of the law. They declare that all thier rights as a citizen of the United States (or any other country, for that matter) are nil. At the same time, if there is circumstances that could prove innocene or lower the sentence, give the convicted and the lawyers ample time to make such a case.

-DjS the Sealer

who are you making this documentary for?

Christian americans supporting the war dont' want to hear this debate, fair or not fair, any more.

The only people I could see watching this are people who believe you're trying to bash christians for being hypocrites, which, i'm sorry to say, is the way you are coming across.

If you're not taking that route, I suggest marketing it in a more generalized routte. As I read it I couldnt believe how anti christian it sounded, john. And I really hope that isnt a route you'd take.

I would expect much more of an educated stance from you.

John,

I think Mogulus is asking a legitimate question. One of the most important things to conisder is your target audience. I know you've said you are mostly doing the documentary for yourself, which is good, but if you want to actually release the film you're going to have to convince television channels (or whatever route you plan on going) that people actually want to see this. And if your film automatically alienates one half of it's possible audience, they will look at that as one half of their viewers/sales gone. You also don't want to sensationalize with large controversial questions that might be too big for the film.

I assume you're interviewing people from both sides of the issue? I know for myself, when watching a documentary there's two things that can take me right out of the film. 1. any sign that it might be fake or may have been largely manipulated, 2. an overly bias opinion or any sign of using the film as propoganda or a conversion tool. With your background, it can't be helped and is probably expected that you may fall under heat for bashing christianity if people were to see this. I think you have to be prepared for that with an open mind civilized arguements.

On top of all of that, make sure there's not too much head room in the interviews.

Oh, one more thing. What information will we be getting that we may not already know? I think the relationship between war and religion is pretty obvious and has been around for thousands of years. What is the average viewer going to learn from this and what exactly are you trying to say in the end? How will the movie end? Will there be characters, and if so will there be any sort of revelations or arcs? What's the actual story?

Listen, guys, John used to be a Christian, so he knows his stuff.

There's always another perspective than what you yourself see. This doesn't mean that it's wrong.

I stand corrected. Abdul Rahman hasn't been freed yet, but again, I think he would make a great interview subject. Downside is that he'll probaly be asked for interviews from CNN to Fox News to ABC to the BBC.

I also don't think John Campea is begging to be the next Michael Moore.

First of all John, good luck on your project.

Second, I have to agree with Halcyon to some extent: all violence is not the same. There are different types of violence, for example, ethnic cleansing violence (Milosevic) and violence against (in this case) a dangerous dictator (Saddam). Like it or not, many of us do see this war as a necessary war. The 'paper tiger' is real.

And by the way, that was some suave IP address investigating....I recall something similar happened to me ;)

Peace.

I need to go with Halcyon/Mike on this one. Here's an excerpt from an article by Dennis Prager available at Townhall:

"An act that is wrong is wrong for everyone in the same situation, but almost no act is wrong in every situation. Sexual intercourse in marriage is sacred; when violently coerced, it is rape. Truth telling is usually right, but if, during World War II, Nazis asked you where a Jewish family was hiding, telling them the truth would have been evil.

So, too, it is the situation that determines when killing is wrong. That is why the Ten Commandments says "Do not murder," not "Do not kill." Murder is immoral killing, and it is the situation that determines when killing is immoral and therefore murder. Pacifism, the belief that it is wrong to take a life in every situation, is based on the mistaken belief that absolute morality means "in every situation" rather than "for everyone in the same situation." For this reason, it has no basis in Judeo-Christian values, which holds that there is moral killing (self-defense, defending other innocents, taking the life of a murderer) and immoral killing (intentional murder of an innocent individual, wars of aggression, terrorism, etc.)."

Well said, better than me in fact and that's why I love Prager. Sorry If I sounded too angry in my post guys! :) I don't mind hearing somebody else's perspective I think he should do this and get real intelligent people from BOTH SIDES.

Haha! What is this dumbass shit about me being Mr Stay Puft?! lmao!!
Take that tin foil hat off John. That is a great way to try to discredit me without really challenging the argument.

I kinda wish I were Mr. Stay Puft me did a better job of making my point.

Mike

I want to throw this out to you, John. It may help with your developmental direction...I dont know how far you are along...

...to really understand christianity you've done half of what you have to do, in recognizing the paradigim shift it took through the Papacy and since, with Catholicism.
The other half of what you need is a realization that Jesus was a Jew, and , while he never spoke about using violent protest to solve any instance, what he did in the temple, i argue with you legitimately, was violence.

In the temple, he released a herd of animals to stampeed through and thew things at people. I was told in an anger management class and by a psychologist that threatening, yelling and forceful action IS violence.

I as a christian believe there is a time for war and a time for peace. I wish the world was ready for peace and it saddens me to know it is not. If you look at both sides of the equation , this could be a great documentary.

my email invitation stands to you. use my knowledge on religion as your own. I am a Hebrew/christian hybrid with an intimate knowledge of both religions' history, culture and messages.

I do hope you have success in this.

"my email invitation stands to you. use my knowledge on religion as your own. I am a Hebrew/christian hybrid with an intimate knowledge of both religions' history, culture and messages."

Listen to this person John he is making a great point. There is a time and place for violence and at times G-d and Jesus/Yeshua would approve of violence to oppose evil.

“The other half of what you need is a realization that Jesus was a Jew, and , while he never spoke about using violent protest to solve any instance, what he did in the temple, i argue with you legitimately, was violence.”

Yes, this is true! Jesus also advocated that his disciples purchase weapons [tools of violence].

Luke 22:36 records that after the Passover meal; … (Jesus) said to (his disciples), "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one …”

I'm also going to throw this out to you. When Jesus was speaking about his return ( and I'm nto sure of the passage so I'm not going to throw the quote or verse number at you ) He said something to the effect of "this time I came to you as a lamn, but the next time i will be like a lion."...

I dont know if jesus would return. Due to my faith and the differences it has taken me from my religion of birth, I do not know If i believe 100% that the heavens will open up and that he'll raise the dead from the earth and into heaven and all of that. But I do think there will be a time where evil people will pay for what they do.

maybe the war on terror is simply a backlash on the people who refused to try and stop such things from happening.