The Marvel vs. DC battle has, once again, been the topic of some comic head conversations lately and I take it that DC is trying to make a comeback by riding the momentum created by the Dark Knight series followed along with an upcoming reboot of the Superman series. I will admit that Superman is probably my least favorite comic book hero for several reasons, however, that’s not the point of this article. The production team for Man of Steel looks very promising since Christopher Nolan is involved in this project.
Another person that is giving me an ounce of hope is Zack Snyder. His most recent film was Sucker Punch, and that is not saying much, but in defense he HAS directed films like 300 and Dawn of the Dead, which weren’t bad productions. What really caught my eye is the title of the movie. I remember being in the theater watching the trailer not realizing that I was watching a Superman trailer all the way up until towards the end and for that I give props to Nolan on the subtlety and tone of the trailer.
And it starts..
When I think of Superman, I think of some hokey corny douche with an “S” on his chest that screams “I was born perfect, however I want the rest of you peasants to be able to relate to me.” In this particular trailer it almost looked if Superman was… well… human. Now I’m not here to down Richard Donner’s rendition of Superman by any means but I think it is very smart that Snyder and Nolan are taking a different approach to the reboot since, believe it or not, this is not 1978. I wonder if Bryan Singer, director of Superman Returns is kicking himself right now for his failure of a sequel because he, unfortunately, tried to bring back the original tone of Superman when in reality: writers, producers etc need to keep up with the times.
It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s…Clark Kent without glasses!
Audiences of the 70’s are going to want something different than audiences of the 00’s and Unless production companies are re-releasing the exact same film to theaters (e.g. Star Wars) there’s no use in trying to use the exact same tone as it had before. Not to mention that back then there weren’t really any other super hero movies to compete with. The simple fact is this:
New generations demand new trends. What’s probably stirring in audience’s mind is this question, what is so different about this film? Besides the obvious technological differences there are others? I already mentioned that the trailer had a totally different tone with the introduction and story as a whole. The subtle insertion of Clark Kent wearing a cape as a child and walking on the streets looking like the average Joe was only the beginning. Let’s compare.
Superman 1978
Director: Richard Donner
Release Date: December 13, 1978
Tone: Light and hopeful. During this time the science-fiction field was in high demand from audiences and it was released a year after Star Wars.
Competition: Low. There were little to no other superhero movies being released at this time. If there were, they were very low budget and not nationally known. Donner had a lot of room to work with.
Superman’s Psyche: a confident unburdened hero who fought for justice. You did not see a dark side to Superman, but rather a man who does no wrong. He was the epitome of an All American hero (next to Captain America in Marvel).
Villain: Lex Luthor
Need I say more?
Man of Steele 2013
Director: Zack Snyder
Release Date: June 13, 2013
Tone: Dark with a little bit of angst. I get the feeling that Nolan and Snyder are taking a different direction with this particular Superman. However, it fits what the modern demographic is used to (Twilight, Hunger Games etc), thus increasing its possibility of success
Competition: Very High. From The Avengers, to the Spider-man franchise, to its reboot, and more you’ll find a plethora of super-hero movies have been released in the last 10 years. Snyder has no choice but to produce this movie with a bit of an edge.
Superman’s Psyche: Based on some comments from Snyder and Nolan, Superman is going through a struggle of figuring out his identity. In other words, we see a possible different (more human) side of him than we have from previous films. Despite his superpowers he isn’t perfect. Clark Kent must fight the internal battle of how to use his powers for good.
Villain: General Zod
Just like in Batman Begins in which Batman’s biggest villain was not present, Snyder and Nolan decided to leave the super villain out for the second release.
In all actuality, it’s hard to compare these two movies in a hardcore sense. They are two totally different films with two different directions. During the time it was released, the tone matched perfectly with the audiences’ demands and demographics. Christopher Reeves also had an astounding performance of portraying Superman as the all American hero in the DC universe.
“I’m an evil baldy”…..muahahaha *evil laugh*
Henry Cavill’s portrayal will be darker and hopefully effective. I know many are going to try to bash this new reboot for not having a happy tone, but do you think a cheesy superhero movie will have a success? Movies like Green Lantern had mediocre reviews compared to what it could have had. I believe this generation deserves a new direction and with Snyder’s vision and Nolan’s creative abilities to create characters that captivate the audiences’ attention as well as draw emotional ties, I’m looking forward to it.
About Franchesca Davis
Franchesca's is passionate about movies and anything that has to do with them. Aspiring actress who also likes to write in her spare time. What's better than seeing a movie AND writing about it? She resides in New York City who enjoys dining out and mingling with friends on the weekend and of course seeing movies and writing about them! She is not afraid to give you her honest opinion on them good or bad. Just ask her!
You neglected a very important demographic about the two movies; In 1978 we were in a period of relative peace here in the US, the Vietnam war had ended just a few years earlier, and the economy was on an up swing, so people wanted to see upbeat "feel good" movies. Currently we are about to enter the 12th year of our current war in the middle east, the US economy is in the sewer with millions of formerly American jobs being performed in boiler rooms and sweat shops in India and Pakistan, seeing a movie (IF it manages to hold the viewers attention) that is "dark and depressing" makes the world look a little bit less gloomy when the two hours of fantasy are over and it is time to return to real life.
@AaronGone I agree, but the point I am making is that we all know Cage was in GR2 but few will remember the director’s name and so the actor will be remembered (for good or bad work) but the director’s name (for he or she is faceless on screen) can sometimes fall by the way side. By the way I haven’t seen Ghost Rider 2 and after what you have said I won’t hurry to do so
@[email protected] Maybe it’s because I’m a film buff, but when a film I’m interested comes out I always know who wrote it and who’s directing it. Acting, directing writing go hand in hand. When one is lacking the movie is lopsided.
I think Henry Cavill is a great actor who will bring a gravitas to the role of Superman as Daniel Craig has brought to James Bond. It doesn’t matter how good the special effects are or to some degree the direction, if you have a great actor and a great screenplay the film will be worth watching. Great acting can stay longer in the mind than the direction. Here we have both superb actor and director so there should be no excuse. Henry cavill should without question star in ‘The Knights of the Continuum’ with Snyder to direct
@Crusifious Screenplay, Acting and Direction work hand in hand. You can have a decent actor and screenplay but a crap director can ruin it. Not many actors are allowed free reign in their performance. The best example I can give from my perspective is Hayden Christensen, he’s not a bad actor but was crap in Star Wars under Lucas.
@[email protected] a good example of terrible directing(questionable acting too by nick cage, but the directing made it worse) is ghost rider 2. There were many scenes where the angles of the shots were incredibly awkward. In many instances, the camera wasn’t used to focus in on the performances of the actors, and was instead just plopped somewhere. i think the best example of this was the alleyway scene where nick cage was intimidating that guy for information with the mom of the kid. The camera should have been focused in on their faces, but was placed near the floor and zoomed out, making the scene incredibly awkward when nick cage was acting mental.
My biggest gripe with the batman films nolan did was that i never really felt like i was watching batman. I hope that his involvement in this film doesn’t do that to superman. I get really tired of the godhood status kids give to the guy.
if your not a fan of superman you shouldn’t make an article based on him, that was my first thought, my second thought was why refer to Nolan as if he is directing the film? yes i see the signature he left on this film but he isn’t in the front seat, Snyder is, then i read the rest and overall your comments on the film is relevant and to the point, your comments on the current generation is what people need to be aware of, i think this film is going to be a masterpiece in my opinion
Nolan’s take on Batman was a hit and miss endeavor. There were many fantastic performances, however, Bale’s was not one of them. For all the great acting, the drama was incredibly flat. I don’t think a person in the world cared when Rachel died and Harvey had half his face burned off. Batman’s tech was fantastically believable, but the character was not believable as a skilled hand-to-hand combatant. For all its much-touted “realism”, the plots were silly and any potentially interesting conflicts (spying on the masses in TDK, for example) were dealt with in a sophomoric manner.
All in all I think Nolan’s Bat-film, while bringing interesting elements to the genre, is on the whole horribly over-rated. I hope his role in Man of Steel is minimal.
@Godzillaf Bale was the main downfall of the nolan batman’s in my opinion, I liked the movies but Batman is supposed to be damaged but never show it, bale was way to emotional. As far as his role in Man of Steel you have many how go on and on on how it’s his film and even some who think he’s directing. He helped write the story with goyer, but goyer alone wrote the screenplay and of course zack snyder is directing, nolan is producing but has spoken on the fact that he’s more their for technical guidance not story.
I do not get this requirement that Superman must relate. He’s too powerful, he’s too good, he’s too noble…he has to be some whiney emo brat shrouded in darkness and suffering a full-blown identity crisis before he can be accepted or understood by the human race-what a crock! The intrigue of Superman is that he is more powerful than us, and he utilizes his superiority to serve rather than dominate. His intrigue is not found in the power that comes from his Kryptonian origin, his intrigue is in the humility he gained from his Smallville upbringing. Considering the world we live in, a hero who is filled with integrity, honor, and truth should be absolutely mesmerizing. We should be inspired by the idea of Superman, but instead we demand that such an idea be darkened and sullied so it bears more resemblance to our depravity. That’s a great plan…instead of stepping into the light let’s turn out all the lights so it is dark everywhere.
@qaliber This is something I often get into debates on. Within entertainment, be it film, book or comics why is it everyone thinks there is no room for multiple types of characters. There can be relatable ones, dark and brooding ones and the ones like Superman. A character that inspires us to be better and to be blunt Shames us, that we realize were selfish greedy children. The Jor-El trailer put it best “they will follow behind you, they will stumble, and they will fall. But one day, they will join you in the sun.” As far as Man of Steel, most hear the word dark and automatically think he’s going to be brooding and angry. while it does appear to be some emotional elements causing him pain, your father dying, finding out you’re an alien and your people are dead and the only ones who survived are evil, think would depress anyone. But it seems he overcomes it to stand up for his new world. When they say dark (and snyder has even spoke on this) it is the world that is darker. For a long while now Superman has always been shown in a kind of Utopia setting. Metropolis has been shown as kind of an opposite to gotham. That worked in the 70’s and in the comics and cartoons. If a god-like being appeared, said he was an alien from another planet, he would be met with mistrust and suspicion. Not to mention that others of his race are trying to subjugate to world.
@[email protected] Well said, Curtis, I concur. Further, to clarify, my “darkness” rant was relative to the article and not MoS. Everywhere I turn, I hear Superman needs to be dark like Batman because Batman was successful…or he needs to be dark so he will be attractive to the youth of today. It is these types of sentiments I was railing against. I know and understand that the back drop needs to keep up with the times. However, the core of the character needs to retain its beacon-like qualities. I had heard the Snyder clarification you mentioned, and hope that it pans out. I am looking forward to MoS, and am optimistic that the “dark” elements will stay in the story’s backdrop. The “how would the world realistically react to a powerful alien” angle is fine, I don’t have any problems with it at all. I personally think the interesting part of the story is the Smallville/humility angle-but that is preference, and I am fine with a story that explores the alien side of things. As long as the exploration doesn’t derail the fundamentals of the character. Even if they label that derailment with a euphemism like “modernize” or “relative”; I am still not good with it. Thus far, I don’t see that in the MoS stuff, and am waiting to be dazzled like everyone else. When it comes down to it, I just want Superman to remain a hero that puts other first. I don’t care if his ideals have fallen out of popularity, leave him be-don’t rewrite him to make him fit our twisted era. I would rather Superman continue to stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way…even if it means he is less attractive to our modern time, even if it means that kids don’t relate, and even if it means he earns a few dollars less at the box office.
@[email protected] I’m keeping an open mind about this film. As long as they produce a complete and consistent film that doesn’t insult the audience’s intelligence then I don’t mind..
I’d much prefer a Superman film that doesn’t depend on the ‘dark’ motif however ‘dark’ is the buzzword nowadays ( see the upcoming Thor and Star Trek films and no doubt the next star wars film will boast a ‘darker’ storyline )
Looking at some of the other responses the Intellectual idea of a Superman is a complex, compelling and potentially worrying one . However I think the Superman we know is far less complex . At heart Superman is a helper … hes the plumber. who saves the day . He fixes our pipes but he doesn’t alter the entire nation’s sewage system. He’s not a leader. He’s the super working man. Or at least he used to be
Perhaps film-makers now want to turn him into a super soldier. No more piping , he fights wars. His costume looks more utilitarian. Someone suggested earlier that this costume was some sort of kryptonian battle suit – he was born to fight.. His Super Abilities weapons , rather than tools
If the world in which Superman lives is made darker its our doing. Hollywood glamorises war and conflict without consequence and regret and we invite war into our homes without question
I don’t think multiple versions of the same character should exist – at least not in movies. I don’t follow comics so I don’t know how well the ‘parallel universe’ universe thing works there but the whole alternate universe Star Trek thing is annoying and its sad that in few years time the only viable Star trek will be this retro-1950/60’s pot-boiler that jj-abrams has created.
I prefer a Superman who chooses to be one of us because he can see the good in us . He’s not the aloof sun-god as in superman returns or the super-soldier but rather the guy with ordinary values who can run a little faster , see a little clearer , leap a little higher than the rest of us.
@[email protected] The New 52 comic has Superman’s suit as a battle suit of sorts (as far as I know) this was because his powers were back to where they were in the 30’s. As far as I can tell from the film, going by the pictures and action figures, his suit is not a battle suit but merely Kryptonian garb. Superman has fought many wars in his 70+ years, Mongol, Braniac, Zod and of course Darksied. Any one of these would subjugate or just outright destroy Earth without Superman fighting them. This isn’t a parallel universe like the Star Trek film ( Star Trek has always been full of alternate universes….Terran Empire) just a new film, like the new batman films were not alternate universes of Burton’s. Superman is simple in his motives but he’s by no means a completely simple character. As far as the “Dark” aspect being used now, I agree it is being Overused, but every hero has , as Joseph Campbell called it, their “Belly of the Whale” stage. When they are at their absolute lowest point and are reforged anew. Thor 2’s title refers more to an actual world, the dark world is the home of the Dark Elves, at least that is what I’ve seen.
@[email protected] yes superman like all heroes have had battles - its the core of the character im thinking about and how that might be changed to suit todays audience. Superman II is considered by some people ( a lot ? ) as the best of the Reeve quartet because of its direct action plot and big scale battles . You mention a few adveraries and i think the producers will almost certainly concentrate on straight mano o mano conflicts in future films rather than the ill-fated ‘what if’ scenarios of superman III and IV. Abram’s Star Trek’s annoying because previously the crew ( and audience ) always returned to their own timeline - this time we’re forever stuck in this timeline until the box office runs out.
@[email protected] I can see how that might be annoying to some, but it was a choice they knew would piss some off. It gave them alot more freedom though in terms of story, they can pretty much do what they want without messing with decades of storyline. You said you don’t follow comics but the alternate universes are almost a core concept in comics. Within Superman’s history, Comics in the golden and silver age were less cohesive than they are now (and thats saying alot) with every writer coming in putting their own spin on the character and in superman’s case adding powers (at one point he could produce an army of pint sized Superman and was kind of a dick to them). In the 80’s they attempted to rectify that with Crisis, a huge storyline about a cosmic being threatening the multiverse. That storyline defined supermans character and power set for the next few decades. As far as fighting, for me Superman I and II are the best with three as only having one good part (evil superman vs clark) and four making no sense whatsoever. I am excited to see Superman and Zod throw down, but there is a deeper story there, basically the only remaining people his world want to destroy his new world, and he makes a choice to defend us.
@[email protected] thats why i dont follow comics ! lol to be fair i used to follow marvel in my younger days . Marvels strength was its strong story arcs while DC suffered from one-off stories ( like the midget supermen i guess ! ) . However Marvel’s story arcs seemed to avoid reboots and parallel universes for a while - I switched back on to comics with Gaiman’s Sandman and Alan Moores Miracleman which were the ultimate reboots but still seemed linear in its storyline and development . Still i cant knock the parallel approach to the art-form - its worked for the past few decades and maybe it will work in a cinematic form
One thing though a film is released every two years compared to every month for a comic ? That will be a factor affecting complex intertwining plots
Wonder how things will look as the internet develops and stories are released solely online ?
As for jj-abrams star Trek …umm … thats a WHOLE other topic !
@qaliber Superman is hardly a paragon in terms of his psychological state or personality…films aside he is shown to display very “human” emotions and reaction. No one is stating relatablity entails making him whiny and emo, but we have canon evidence to show that Superman does think and to an extent “angst” about his actions, and the things he decides to do with his powers.
You have no credibility at all in this article. A) You haven’t seen the new film therefore have no business comparing it to the original. B) You don’t even know how to spell the Original Superman actor’s name. Please don’t make me laugh in your face you hack. It made sense for Batman Begins to be dark and brooding. If they go that route with Man of Steel it will likely fall flat. Superman isn’t about dark and brooding, it’s about hope and truth, justice and the American way.
A big huge issue for me with this film (and I am as big a Supes fan as you can get) is if the rumors are true and they don’t use the William’s Superman theme then it comes down at least 2 pegs for me. It doesn’t have to run over the credits ala Returns, but at some pivotal moment when Clark decides to be ‘the man’ or he’s turning the tide against Zod, a big blast of that music to remind people that this is Superman would hit the spot. It’s like making a Star Wars movie and saying ‘lets do all new music!’ Doesn’t work. Any sequels and remakes that have identifiable themes (and the Superman theme is ICONIC, no arguments considered) that use the original’s music come off way better. It’d be like a Halloween movie without the music, or Friday the 13th (which didn’t really use the theme and sucked hard.) Some things don’t need to be changed if that part of the recipe is already right.
The Superman theme is iconic, hell it’s my ring tone. But this isn’t Reeve’s Superman. Your examples are really not the same as all the star wars films and shows are part of the same universe, same with the Friday the 13th and Halloween films. The Reeve’s films are on a pedestal on their own. One of Superman Returns greatest flaws to me was trying to be part of the Reeve’s Superman world. Man of Steel is an entirely different universe all together, to constantly compare it to the Reeve Films is unfair and unnecessary.
I hope they don’t go as “dark” as the Batman films with this one. In my opinion Batman and Superman are like yin and yang as far as mainstream superheroes go, and it’s just not portraying the character correctly if The Man of Steel is a super dark film. I don’t mind some darkness, there has to be. How couldn’t there be when an entire planet meets it’s end? But I just hope that the theme, in the end, is light and hope. Definitely looking forward to the movie either way, but this is just what I want to see in a Superman film.
I wish you would have mentioned Hunger Games and Twilight earlier in the article, that way I would have known to stop reading then. This article gets so many things wrong that it’s laughable.
@Cyborgjoe when people talk about Dark they refer generally to the ‘tone’ of the movie rather than events - for instance a lot of people die in indiana jones movies but you wouldnt normally class them a ‘dark’ movies.
@[email protected] most of those are funny deaths. Lois is buried slowly and had the life choked out of her. That scene still gets to me as a grown man. And the scene with all the Kryptonians falling into oblivion?
@[email protected]@Cyborgjoe death is death . i wouldnt call them funny but i know what you mean . i think whats important is the context within which these events occur. for instance man getting sliced in a indiana jones movie as opposed to man getting sliced at end of dirty harry movie. Superman 1978 was an epic romance adventure - thats its context. i remember watching those scenes you menitioned back in 78/79 and thinking wow i never expected to see that but they add weight to the film but they dont alter the tone of the film.
Something that annoys me is when people say the Superman movie is rediculous because when he’s Clark Kent, he just puts on a pair of glasses, when in reality, he doesn’t just put on glasses, he changes his personality, his speaking voice, his mannerisms. You need to realize that they had to make Superman and Clark Kent as different as possible and still stay close to the source material, which not an easy task given that in the comics he just puts on a pair of glasses, so it mostly relied on Chris Reeve to make sure that Clark didn’t just put on a pair of glasses, he put on a different personality. Even in Superman 2, Lois begins to think Clark is Superman just because of the way he looks and even risks her life to prove a point.
@Cyborgjoe That’s ridiculous. Anyone looking at a man who looks exactly like another man, save for a pair of glasses, would still know they were the same person; regardless if that man donned a different personality, different voice, or different mannerism. You’re living in your comic book world if you think anyone would think otherwise.
Tinwoods @Cyborgjoe Masters of disguise do it all the time, and that is how people need to view it. Clark is the worlds most consummate actor. It was once broken down within the comics as such. The lens of his glasses dull his alien blue eyes, he heightens his voice a bit and slouches, many don’t even realize how much height you lose when you slouch. But the main thing is the personality. Clark made his impression before Superman. Clark relies on humanities lack of attention, no one can believe bumbling, geeky Clark is The Man of Steel. But, this is not to say it hasn’t been pierced by someone paying attention, but Kal-El had all kinds of other tricks up is cape to deal with that.
@[email protected] Not just that, but you have to remember that without a mask, people aren’t really looking for a secret identity. Batman wears a mask, so people are going to wonder what’s under it. Superman does not.
I remember coming to this realization during the Avengers movie. If Thor were running around Manhattan, would anyone be trying to find out who he is in his off time? No. If you were in the Daily Planet building you’d just think that guy you work with would kind of look like Superman if he took his glasses off.
@CurtisAndrewHedrick for some reason i cant see your response on this page only on email ( ??) my argument is that jor-el; sent his son to a planet with a yellow sun so he wouldnt need protection ? i guess this ‘supersuit’ is a recent abstraction to bring superman more in line with the likes of barman and our own current fascination with technology . maybe in 5 or 6 years time as nano tech comes into public sphere , writers will reboot superman suggesting that jor-el implanted nano-probes into young jor-el thus giving him his powers when near a yellow sun or when kal-el reaches puberty or something. Thats the joy of rebooting - you can tweak a concept to fit current trends.
…or dark energy / dark matter lol superman’s dna is made up of dark matter thats why he can Defy the law of physics and …. erm …..anyway … even though i quite like the idea of nanotach perhaps its best not to dissect superman - hes a myth and above explanation . maybe we dont need to know how he does something - we know his strengths and weaknesses already. However Is that enough? Or should writers redefine him every few years
I’m wanting the less than “gee, golly, mister.” type of Superman. Not saying that he can’t be a good moral compass or shouldn’t be, but people just don’t care all that much about Superman, because he’s perfect. Perfect isn’t bad, just that he pretty much didn’t have to progress to be perfect. He was already there. Sure, he struggled with death of parents, and home world, but that was when he was a baby. Even people with great parents and upbringings struggle to figure out if the morals they were taught are good for them. That’s what i’m hoping from this movie. To see his character struggle with temptations because of his origins, and then over come them. I really never saw that in the old movies. I think that’s what made Smallville popular.
people keep saying the new Superman movie is “dark” and that the film makers are just trying to make the character cool. But i think the fact is the character himself has not changed it’s the world and how he fits into it that is different. The Donner film was from a different era, and the world was different more optimistic and “happy” you might say. Now we live in a different time, but what i see in the trailer is a man with those old school values trying to live in a world that is so jaded, “should he save us? should he let us fail?” those are the issues he seems to be struggling with. Plus, he’s an “outsider” an “alien”, illegal in the worst way, being from outer-space , and anyone who’s seen almost any alien movie knows what humans don’t understand or can’t control we fear. So does he reveal himself, would the world accept a being as powerful as him, or would they fear an hate him. That to me is the theme of this movie, not being “dark” because it worked for Batman. We all have opinions but we should really just stop sometimes and see a film as a whole before we pass judgement off a 2 min trailer. Just saying.
very true, I have been trying to get that point across for sometime. another Aspect they could explore either in this film or a sequel are the people that people that would go the opposite extreme and worship Superman as a god.
Couple of things about Superman the movie you were a little off on. It was actually released December 11, 1978. And remember when Superman traveled back in time, disobeying his father? Kind of a glimpse of a dark side there buddy.
yes but he did it for the love for lois lane ? - which was the point of the scene. Love conquers all that sort of thing. An old fashioned sentiment but i think that was the key points of the movie - superman as an old fashioned ( but never outmoded) hero in modern day America/world
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
Casting, story, and casting. The casting of Man of Steel is already, in my opinion, the first reason not to see the movie. Have they ever read a Superman comic? He is tall, huge, and so is Zod. Beyond this, I look to the last two movies in the Dark Knights series. #2 should have just been called Joker, because Batman was like an afterthought,,, and #3 should have been called Bane. I have no hope for the Man of Steel. It will be like a Jean Claude Vandamme movie where he gets his ass kicked for most of the fight, then at the end he pulls out a victory. I will stay home and watch a classic on my home theater.
@jeepjake69 How Much “Bigger” do you want Superman to be, Henry is over 6 feet tall 6’1″ and put on quite a bit of muscle for this. You compare it to Christopher Reeve’s Film, In those while Reeve was 6’4″ He didn’t put on a huge amount of muscle for the role, and Terrance Stamp is only 6 feet and was not muscled either yet he played Zod. Comics always beef up the characters to show their strength, but what works there won’t work in live action more often than not. Superman’s powers were never based on how buff he was. And there is no reason to compare this to the Batman Trilogy, Nolan had a hand in the concept and is producing but thats it. Fanboys like to drum up and over exaggerate his involvement in this film. This is Snyder’s film, not Nolan’s.
@CurtisAndrewHedrick I want him to be 6’4″ and at least 225 pounds. In DC vs. Marvel Comics published in 1996, he was listed at 6’3″ and 225 pounds, I have other official DC literature from 2007 that lists him at 6’4″ 235 pounds. During the period when Christopher Reeve played Superman, he was reported as 6’4” and 225. Christopher Reeve was 195 pounds when he auditioned, but worked with bodybuilder David Prowse (better known as the man in the Darth Vader suit, at 6’7″, he was a monster) and bulked up to a verified 225. Brandon Routh weighed 218 pounds for the role, and a little padding in the shoulder and upper arm area helped him bulk up a bit. As a long time martial artist and powerlifter, I am 5’6” and 210 pounds, wear a size 54 coat with a 28 inch waist. I want someone built like me but 6’3″ at least. At this height and weight, I have run a 4.34 40 yard dash, and can dunk volleyballs on a 10 foot rim ( I can’t palm a basketball, but can dunk with an alley oop) so saying big builds make you less athletic and flexible is absolute crap, especially since I can also do the splits. Terrance Stamp as Zod was also a joke to me. I have a friend who was the steadicam operator for The Shield series on FX, and is now a director, having directed episodes of The Walking Dead, Breakout Kings, and is now working on his first major motion picture, so I know there are actors out there who can fulfill these roles. I’m not saying I am right and you are wrong, I am just saying this is how I feel it should be done. No matter what I say, I won’t be able to keep myself from seeing the movie, and who knows, maybe I’ll love it, but until then, the jury is still out.
@jeepjake69 What you say is very true, I am short but built heavy from manual labor but have developed speed as well through combat training. But while we humans will build bulk with power a kryptonian’s power comes from the physiology of the alien bodies as exposed to the Yellow Sun. A kryptonian who is a big fat tub would have the same powers as Superman as well as a rail thin Kryptonian. Physical features are important, but not as much as acting ability, you might have an actor who fits superman physically but couldn’t pull it off performance wise. The planets aligned when Reeve was cast, he had it all, the look, the acting ability even the fact he was a highly trained hang glider pilot made his flying believable. Henry is a very good actor and I look forward to seeing his performance. Zod is a good pick for a villain but the sequel I would like to see a more obscure character…Conduit is one I’ve wanted to see for a while.
@CurtisAndrewHedrick Totally with you on Reeves, especially at the time period. Like I said, even though I’m not thrilled with the casting, I can still be won over by a well done story, especially if Cavill pulls it off well. I have a friend that I wish would have gone and auditioned for this role ( I have a friend who is actually a Director in Hollywood, mostly works for FX, but is now working on his first major motion picture) because this guy is talented, and physically, just mirrors the modern comic Superman. I get the, I don’t want to be type caste answer! Who better than to be typecast as Superman? I’d love it. Oh well, what do you do. I did love Christopher Reeve, and I do feel that although many people thought he was to goody goody, he put a lot of self conflict into the role. Shame what happened to him. I was told he was a very good man.
@jeepjake69 its actually what the actor / actress brings to the role rather than casting on its own - eg. Christopher Reeve , Michael Keaton, Robert Downey Jnr ? They wouldnt be many people’s first choices but look what they achieved. When Schwarzenegger played Conan MANY people criticized his performance although on paper he was the ideal choice. Though the film made money it was considered a big disappointment.
@gjlook I am a huge Conan fan, and I actually didn’t like him for the role. Robert E. Howard described him as being well over six feet as a teenager at Venarium, and short of his full height. Arnold is shorter than 6’2′. The films were disappointments for me for reasons beyond that as well. I do agree that what the actor/actress brings to the role is huge, but I believe there is a template that should be followed as closely as possible. In the Incredible Hulk movie, and in the Avengers, the Hulk is much taller than the 7 foot, 1000 pound Marvel Comics Hulk. Strangely enough, in the DC VS. Marvel Comics graphic novel, the Hulk is listed at 6’6″ and 1,150 pounds though he appears at least a foot taller than Superman ( who once again, beats the Hulk ). I liked Brandon Routh’s casting as Superman, but I found 2 major faults with the movie ( though I understand the Director wanting to use Routh’s portrayal of the character as an homage to Christoper Reeve’s portrayal) and like the move towards a darker, grittier, mood in the movie, but Routh could have done this, he was only acting as he was directed to, to bring a lightness to the character. The second problem was the villain, Lex Luthor. I have been tired of his character FOREVER now, and to see ANOTHER Superman vs. Luthor script just killed me. I longed for a building shattering battle against a super powered villain ( envisioning something like the final battle of Smith vs. Neo in the 3rd movie in the Matrix trilogy), and at least, we are getting that, but once again, the casting is disappointing to me. As I replied to another post though, realistically, no matter what I said, I will end up in the theater opening day. Who knows, maybe I’ll be won over. Let’s hope so. Thanks for the replies though guys, it’s nice to know there are others out there that, even though we may disagree on somethings, these movies, and the comics they are based on, are important enough to create this kind of dialogue.
@jeepjake69 yes ive seen your other posts and i think you are putting too much emphasis on strict dimensions . I think in all these movies the essence is important -ok i wouldnt expect the hulk to be smaller than say , robin - mainly because they represent two different things. I do agree a template is desirable - example of throwing away template is Daniel Craig as Bond but Craig does capture the popular essence of Bond . Chris Reeve looked like superman but he also captured the essence of Superman at the time - a good guy who really cares. If there is a template i hope its one where Cavill’s Superman can bring hope in today’s more technologically complex but nihilistic society
@gjlook You are definitely right about the differences in society. His arrival to America in the 50’s as compared to now is involving a completely different set of cultural norms and values. I still like my template, but you make a great point. The America that he encounters now is absolutely going to affect his acceptance, the divisiveness of opinion, and the polarization of political thought is astoundingly different than even in the 70’s for Reeve’s Superman. I have often given thought to an idea presented on (sadly enough) Saturday Night Live a long time ago, what if Superman arrived in and became Uberman, in Nazi Germany? Obviously, any decent hearted soul from any planet would realize that Nazi Germany was evil, but I’ve often wondered about him encountering another country first, and how he would view the world. I also agree with Daniel Craig as Bond being both a bold and good move for the Bond movies. I don’t know how old you are, but I am 43 and having been reading comics for nearly 40 years, and may be a little more stuck in my ways, and less flexible. I’ve seen the heroes and heroines of Marvel and DC morph in different generations, and have been pleased, and disappointed by many of the changes. What I speak of, I speak of as an ideal for me. If I were the director, and creating the movie, what would I do? So every movie I see, I tend to judge them that way. It is why I can’t watch most military, or cop shows and movies. Having spent 20 years with an M-4 slung over my shoulder, and having been trained to be one of the best at urban warfare, I am entirely too critical of these movies and shows to enjoy them. I’ve dealt with the worst the world has to offer, superheros, supervillains, supernatural powers, these are things I haven’t encountered, and always wonder if I did, how would it play out. It opens up new areas of thought for me, takes me down new roads and paths, that I can never really experience. Therein lies the adventure for me. I hope you are right, I hope I am won over, because Superman and Batman have been my heroes, because as good as I am, Batman would still kick my ass!
@jeepjake69 there is a dark and light parallel to Superman - Darwin, Nietzsche and as you say what if Superman landed in another society - suppose that’s why they say ‘truth justice and the American way’ . I think the theme running throughout all the movies is the conflict between the Individual and the Masses - Do I save them from themselves and how do i do that ? Luckily Superman is distracted by events and supervillains to tackle that dilemna and thankfully over the decades writers have introduced other superheroes to remind us that the Masses are not so helpless after all
@[email protected] They Have explored this quite a bit in the Elseworlds storylines such as Red Son, where Kal-El Lands in Soviet Russia. One where he was found by the Wayne’s etc.
@gjlook The struggle with how much Superman should do for mankind goes back to Jorels first instructions, and why he should have a secret identity. America right now is a perfect example, the conflict between an entitlement state, or a genuine free market capitalist republic. If we had Superman, would we do less and just expect him to take care of us? You can find all kinds of political and sociological parallels between real life, and the struggles of our superheroes and heroines.
@[email protected] been a while since I read it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son#Story best bet to learn the story. It wasn’t a favorite of mine but it’s worth a read.
@jeepjake69 its funny how superman came about in the last great depression and his alter-ego came from modest beginnings and served - not as a politician but as a reporter - seeker of truth. I guess the media had more credibility those days !! But the real life parallels with the poor economy and its causes then and now are not the sphere of superman i dont think - but i think we all need a helping hand but that hand (superhero or otherwise ) is there to helps us struggle to overcome the difficulties that lay ahead .
I think this move to make superman darker comes from the guys at dc. In the reboot of the comics, superman isn’t accepted at first. He is hunted by the military and feared by the people. he’s a little more angsty too. Its a move to bring a broader audience to superman.
Is it the right move? it depends on your position. It could be the wrong move for the character, because it changes one of the core characteristics of superman. However, it could be the right thing if you want to keep superman alive, by making him more appealing to the younger generation. Without the profit, there will be no incentive to tell more stories about superman on the big screen.
It doesn’t take making superman angsty or darker to make him more appealing, it just takes a good storyteller. The appeal of superman was not his struggle to do the right thing. His appeal was that he never struggled doing what he believed was right. No matter how difficult the fight was to get there.
@AaronGone Aaron, I really like your take on this. You saw this especially with Reeve’s Superman ( I remember comments about him being a bit to goody goody), in the first movie. You did see some conflict as he reversed time to save Lois, but throughout, the only struggle emotionally that I saw was his struggle over his “life” as Superman, and his love for Lois. He was, as Jorel said to him, a light for mankind to show them the way. I always love to think about what would it be like if Superman did arrive in our world, or even other “superheroes”. My wife by the way, cannot comprehend the conversations, and the time I take, on the computer, and with my friends, talking about these things. Comic books, movies, Alien vs. Predator, constant debates about things that she thinks are unimportant. I spend a lot of time working on the science part of science fiction. She thinks it is dumb. I handed her an equation I was working on (for fun, of course) and told her, if she can figure out the answer by the end of “Bridezillas”, I will consider her opinion valid. If not, then guess who wears the dunce cap in the family. She was not pleased.
@AaronGone I love this. I am separated, but my best friend and I would stay up for hours, just having a few beers until 4-5am just talking about what we would do if we had control and could make movies, and who would win against whom, and more. Most people do not grasp the depth of struggle and character, as well as the talent it takes to weave these stories together into a coherent, interesting and action filled event. It is entertainment, but it is also grounds for deep thought considering what would happen if these things occurred on our earth, and how we would relate. It takes so much more talent than taken a bunch of over made-up, cheap looking sleazy women, and throw them in a group and let them argue about the dumbest things ever. I love physics. Calculating the weight of the earth, how much force it would take to move it, what would happen if Superman were able to rotate it backwards. At light speed, you would travel around the earth 7 times per second at 186,000 miles per second. Science says nothing can travel faster than light, but new research has now shown that this long thought solid law of physics may not be in fact accurate. It is a little more thought provoking than, You a ho, No you a ho, ah go f yourself, I’ll rip out that b’s weave etc. etc. What happened to story writing? I’ll stick with science, science fiction, quantum mechanics and things my ex couldn’t spell. Seriously, it was like talking code around her. She was hot, but well, you know how long that lasts. After a while it is just like looking at a magazine, it’s nice, but you get tired of it. Still, I will give the movie a chance and go with an open mind. I just hope they don’t change Superman too much at his core. Good, decent, complicated, troubled by loneliness, and despising those who abuse the weak because they can. And I hope he kicks Zod’s butt. Even if Zod does break his jaw.
You argue in 1978 there wasnt any other superhero films for superman to compete with - that may be true to an extent - on the other hand there wasnt any other fantasy films to learn from either. There wasnt anything else of its kind - a multi million dollar superhero film. Today Man of steel can borrow from at least 10 years worth of mega bucks fantasy movies - studios now how to market them; magazines ( online or other ) know how to cover them. Audiences are conditioned now : 1978 hmm superman , really ? i wonder what thats like … 2013 : Superman hmm ? really ? I Know EXACTLY what thats like. 1978 Superman was an enormous risk that paid off handsomely. 2013 Man of Steel is part of an ongoing multi media process that that is becoming ever more refined and calculated .
It makes sense to re-incarnate this character with darkness as the outer edge of his definition.
These characters have always been definable by the people reading them, and the nature of the stories have always been inspired by the times. In these times of difficulty, where the whole earth is touched by darkness in one form or another, it makes no sense to cocoon one or more superheros in a sphere of protection when they are ultimately fighting our battles, both physically and mentally. The superhero is a superhero precisely because he has that opportunity to engage the darkness of humanity, find the edge of sharp horror, lose a little of himself, and come out of the mess of engagement stronger in a way that he doesn’t understand.
Superman would not be Superman unless he was actually human, but of a different sort. Transported from a different place yes, but one that was of our humanity and yet defined differently. Despite this difference, he is connected to us and needs to learn about this connection, a life-line that feeds him so powerfully.
He needs us. And we need him.
Most people do not believe in superheros. This re-booting of the various franchises will engage the people in a new way, specific to them, bringing the darkness of the whole world to light on the movie screen, thus bringing the reality of the need for these superheros to the ones who need it most.
There is a great hidden spiritual inspiration guiding the world, cleaning it, bringing enemies together, providing boundaries to the proper leadership of the world, and breaking down the illegitimate figureheads. Most people feel this inspiration in the underlying life-force, the foundation of all reality. There are those who are actively engaging this life-force, gaining instruction from it, feeding it with their will, throwing down their strength to the earth to set foundations, and ultimately win in the greatest protracted test of all time.
The greatest battles are being fought as we speak, the Great Superheroes engaging hidden enemies who provide boundaries to the general public by the force of their will without any consideration of human principles. It is a game, yes, but one that is serious and engaging the greatest evil of all time.
By the time Christmas and New Year come around, the world will be secure from an actual attack of gargantuum proportions. The superheroes have a great respect for these celebrations, and so when these festivities have passed there will be an opportunity to reveal these superheroes to the wider public.
When that happens the world will change in an extraordinary way.
I think everybody is wrong with their takes.. Look at the suit,Snyder is trying to make him more alien. As he finds out more about himself,he fights with the alien part of him. Trying to figure out how he can fit into society and probably doesn’t understand his powers yet. The suit looks aggressive and that’s probably why people are scared by him initially. He has to overcome that. It would be great if that was his 1st suit and once he figures out how to identify with people he comes out with a suit they can identify with. From the pics we see of Superman in his suit they look dark,its almost a dirty dark. Good for an alien look ,but not good for an acceptance look. It would be cool,if he got an updated suit like the suit in the new 52 with a collar. That would make more sense. I personally don’t want the movie to go all Batman Begins on us. It needs to be a little brighter IMO. And what is it with all these suits that look like webbed plastic really? Batman had the only suit that looks cool. Get rid of the webbed suits already.
I think there has been a lot of uncertainty cast on the notion that this film is being promoted by its creators as “Dark and Edgier”. I think that that is more so the tone of the film as apposed to the character of Clark Kent/Superman. I think audiences have come to be more prone to superheroes being relatable and having human issue as well as extraordinary issues to have to endure. We want to see ourselves in our heroes. We want to know they they have doubts and fears and find the faith and courage to excel and surpass the odds.
In thinking about the characterization of Clark/Superman, he isn’t so much dark as he is “COMPLEX.” If you were an incredibly gifted child, and you parents, although they love you greatly, instruct and raise you to hide your gifts out of fear that you will not be well received by normal people. You then become an adult and are dealing with whether you will use your gifts to your advantage and seize what you want out of life or continue to hide your truth out of fear of retaliation. These are the things Clark/Superman deals with. These are complex decisions to have to endure.
If this film expresses this successfully I believe they will recreate Superman for this generation’s audiences. Regarding the new suit; hey sometimes you just have to update the look. Superman has had subtle changes throughout his history though this seems most drastic because of the loss of the red briefs. But common, Red breifs??!!On the outside??!!!!
@RianDHunter I don’t believe Superman is that complex. The things you talk about have been tagged onto the character in the past decade. Superman has the power to make a difference, so the question changes from what must he struggle to do into what should he do? That in itself is pretty interesting, but too philosophical for what people want in a movie.
Take Superman 4 for instance. It dealt with Superman deciding to rid the earth of nuclear war. With smarter writing, and aimed at an older audience that could have been the best Superman movie instead being generally thought of as the worst.
In the silver age he was Superboy first, and his parents felt this was a great way for him to make the most of his abilities. They didn’t scare him into hiding, his mom sewed his first uniform. The brooding Superman that fears loosing the acceptance of others mostly came from the Smallville TV show.
@RianDHunter of course your wrong, he is a complex character.. &even if those attributes have been tagged on in the last decade theyre a welcome addition. i dont know what kindof films you like, but films like TDK Avengers Watchmen etc have all proved that audiences WANT more intrigate complex &substantial characters.. not shallow one dimensional non philosophical robots you seem to be inferring as for the superboy thing its absolutely ridiculous &something not even a misguided Smallville approached.. the key element youre missing here is realism. &realism (especially in cinematic context) dictates no SENSIBLE parent regardless of their moral leanings would in this modern age allow their child to endanger &isolate himself by stitchin up a costume &send him out there to fight crime while hes still in junior high
@RianDHunter There is complexity in that he always had an alter -ego but i agree superman wasn’t created as a complex character. he was a symbol . A good man who flew in the light .
I agree Superman 4 had the potential and its a film that would be better produced now .
I’m all for re-evaluating comic book characters ( anybody seen or remember Alan Moore’s miracleman ) but i suspect this current ‘dark and edgy’ approach to films is more to do with product appeal and box office rather than a logical and creative direction.
It’s easy, we are in a time that we don’t want heroes, We want real life people doing hero (and maybe impossible) things. Realistic and HUMAN characters.
If there were a man today who had super powers and was brought up to respect people, loved his country, and enjoyed doing good for others, would the people of earth reject him or laugh at him? They would be ini awe of him. Some would be jealous of him and some would want to take him out of the picture. Today in real time there are no superheroes. If this man/alien existed how would he act with regard to the people he loved to help? Superman doesn’t have to be dark but he does have to have human feelings although he is better than anyone on the planet. That might make him a bit cocky.
@[email protected] That is what makes Superman interesting. He can bend rivers, shoot fire from the sky, and take a rocket burst straight in his chest. He can do all those things, and could easily take over, and reign as a god, and he doesn’t. Instead, he serves. The fact is, it isn’t power that corrupts, it’s that power attracts those that are easily corrupted.
think the costumes great, but a little bit too dark, superman has always been bright, I guess that would still work with this suit design, would def be awesome, but I guess the story might have caused the dark tone of the suit!
Times have changed bro, that would suck! these super heroes need a Dark and Gothic theme, the darker the better, it all depends on the script! @JohnnyEdwards
@JustenAboh “Times have changed”?! I call bullshit on that. Why? Because Captain America was pretty much portrayed as a goody-two-shoes kinda character in his movie without any trace of irony or cynicism, and it ended up being a big success. If they aren’t able to do the same for Superman in his movie in this day and age, then what’s the fucking point of the movie? I mean, aside from the fact that if DC didn’t make this movie lose the movie rights to a lot of what makes up Superman’s mythology, which will end up defaulting back to the heirs of creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster.
@[email protected] think captain america being set in the 40’s helped it, they also have brought in for the new one the idea that he’s been frozen and everyone he new is now dead, so the new film may be darker and edgier
@[email protected] Good point, but CA took place in the 1940s, a time that many people stood up for their country. Those men are regarded as Heros today. However, the Captain did take his goodness to the future in the Avengers, so perhaps you are right. Maybe people have trouble accepting that someone with so much power would be so good.
Oh, I’m excited. I always hated characters with shitty unitards. They literally look like gay strippers(no offence to the LGBT community). I just want them to make it seem realistic like the Dark Knight or the Amazing Spiderman. Also, when people die, it doesn’t make it darker it just makes it more realistic because SHIT happens and you can’t save or make everyone happy.
@CarlosGaringalao but does it have to have the dull, dark, boring color pallete. Superman is bright and brings hope to mankind. That is the character stick to it. And a Superman movie is about a flying guy, it does not need to be realistic. Just put on the tights and have him fight a villian of equal or greater ability. That is what made Batman great. He was going head to head with a real threat, one that he had to overcome.
the only reason avengers did good was because it was every fanboy’s dream of watching a bunch of superheroes on the silver screen…NOTHING ELSE…the movie itself was SHIT…LACKLUSTER crap plot and mediocre visual effects(towards the end)… BatMan was a far more satisfying movie..i HOPE they do something similar and exciting to Superman and change his boy scout, nice guy image… they did that with the joker and it worked wonders…( i’m so sorry but it was the character and not heath’s acting that people like…..the idea of warpaint instead of a mask…..subtle but effective…)
@SunnyJamesToppo I dissagree with that second last statement a little, heaths acting was absolutely outstanding, his laugh, his little facial expressions, and just the way he walked around were superb. I do agree however that people love the joker character, because lets be serious, he’s one interesting fellow
@SunnyJamesToppo the movie was fun. Rotten tomotoes has 92% critics liked it and 96% normal folks who liked the movie. It was a fun movie. A great movie, not so much, but great summer fun. Batman was good too. I think Superman might be good but again it usually is scary when they don’t stick to the manual. Look how crappy The Last Airbender movie was. He stuck to the outline but was not true to the characters. It was darker and not as light hearted as the real show and failed because of it. Put Superman into the darkest environment is fine but make him the beacon of light. He is a light, bright character who comes and saves you through the darkest periods. He is the boy scout. Keep him that way.
I’m tired of everybody thinking something has to be darker to be cool. That is stupid. Batman is a dark character so to have a dark Batman works. To have a darker Superman just to be “hip” and “yuppie” cool is lame and stupid. We are tired of emo characters. Avengers was not a dark movie. It was fun. Iron Man worked because it was fun. Dark does not equal good. Just stay true to the core of the character. Batman’s darkness contrasted Superman’s hopefulness and goodness. That is why the two are sometimes at odds with one another. They play off each other. It would be highly stupid to have a dark Batman and a dark Superman. Avengers worked because the characters did not take themselves to serious and were who they were supposed to be. Hulk smashed, Captain America was the boyscout, Ironman was the playboy, big mouth philanthropist and Thor was the God of Thunder. Superman stood for hope and what man could be after all he is a Super Man. Not the conflicted, emo bum he looks like in the film. He is Clark Kent, a farmboy, nerd and Superman. He is supposed to be a bright beacon of light. Green Lantern sucked because he wasn’t Green Lantern. Nothing heroic about him. He was a quitter, spent 5 minutes on Oa and quit after his butt was handed to him. He was supposed to be fearless but the dude was afraid the whole movie. It should have been an epic movie with aliens and fights in space and ended up being a cry baby quitter and douche bag. That is why it sucked. Whoever writes for DC cartoons should be the ones doing the movies. Here is a simple formula that works. Stick to the character. Stay close to the source. Once you begin to deviate from what made something great you lose. You start doing stupid things like making Superman a deadbeat dad of a 5 year old. Hopefully the one thing they will get right is make Superman puch something. You want to give him conflict and make him darker then do the Apocalypse story line. Bring in a SUPER villian to go toe to toe with Superman. It is real easy and yet except for Superman 2 is the only time we really got a real villian to fight Superman. Oh by the way, rehashing that Villian for this movie is already sad.
@IamSamJackson it is not dark if they make him more human. They basically tried to answer the question, if you are the only one of your kind and no one would understand you, how would you feel? I would feel depressed but I would also find out why I’m the only one of my kind.
@IamSamJackson I’d feel bad if I had a bone growing out my head or didn’t look like everyone else but if I looked like everyone else, was 6 ‘ 3″, handsome with super powers I would not feel an inkling of depression. I wouldn’t give a crap out the culture I came from because it doesn’t exist. He is a farm boy raised around humans that look like Kryptonians minus the powers and even Kryptonians didn’t really have super powers unless they were near a yellow sun.
@IamSamJackson The thing is, there are darker Superman storylines. Death of Superman, Red Son, Earth One, and Kingdom Come among others. So its not like this imagining of the character is not without precedent. Earth One is a great example of a Superman story adapted to the times. Darker, with a lot of the conflict occurring within Clark Kent’s head, dealing with his moving to Metropolis and the death of Jonathan. And with cell-phones!
Also, your reaction to having super powers is realistic; however, that is not Superman. You can’t impose every emotion that you have or would have on a character… And if Supes didn’t feel that way, there would be way fewer plot lines.
@IamSamJackson ppl like you havent got the either mental depth empathy or understanding to even grasp the concept of whats being discussed here do you..
“if i looked like every body else &was 6″3 handsome bla bla bla” listen to what your saying.. NONE of that superficial bullshit matters.
imagine: your NOT like ANYONE else, everyone &everything around you is like cardboard or paper ma you dont know who or even WHAT the hel you are why you are where you came from.. the only thing holding you together is the fact two ppl raised &took care of you but also taught you to be careful of letting ppl know who you REALLY are or what you can REALLY do.. these are the things that come natural to you as breathing yet you CANT because of what others may think or worse do.
thats only about 5% of what makes up superman.. &a shitload of angst most normal ppl couldnt handle.. but beneath all that &what im hoping this film will portray.. is hope. its not about being “a cheery douche dumbass” 24/7 but having that strong sense of HOPE in a hopeless cynical twisted world..
Bats expects the worst &acts accordingly plans accordingly prepares obsessive countermeasures accordingly… a realistic version of Supes knows its bad struggles with his identity but realises BECAUSE of who he is he can afford to take chances no one else can &make a difference.. &hopes for the best..
listen to the last few words in the trailer &youll realise that hope is what this new superman is all about.
its no ones making its just Time that has changed, maybe we could blame crowd mentality and prefrence, you could see what happened with the previous superman. . oh and green lantern people just thought it was childish for no reason.. just saying @IamSamJackson
I’m not a fan of this costume. First, if you’re going to have a belt buckle then wear a belt, not booty pjammas. Second it’s too dark. Most importantly, as every fan of the character knows, (though even the comics have gotten this wrong since the reboot) Superman is invulnerable. He doesn’t wear armour because leather, kevlar, chain mail, none of them compare to his own skin. His costume is just supposed to a colourful patriotic thing that his mom sewed for him. Making the costume look like it’s meant to protect his body actually tells me that Superman is weaker then he ought to be.
@Cyndaquil In many of the stories and comics over the years, including the new 52 and this movie, the suit was no longer sewed by martha but Kryptonian formal or battle wear. Some of the onset photos show Zod wearing a similar suit.
@[email protected] Kryptonian battle wear. ? i dont follow the comics now … but wasnt kal-el a baby ? Wasnt Krypton an Enlightened Society ? why would they stick a baby in military garb especially when they knew he wouldnt need them where he’s going? Unless Krypton had enemies or military interests at the time of their demise ? but then why would you want to stick a baby with….. wasnt Jor-el a scientist ?
@[email protected]@Cyndaquil I said “Formal” or “Battle” wear. Within the Man of Steel film I believe it will (in what i’ve seen) what Kryptonians wore within their society. Look at what Russel Crowe is wearing as Jor-El. Withing the New 52 (i don’t follow them either but I’ve done a bit of research) They Started Superman where he was in the 30’s comics. No flight, not completely Invulnerable, and not as strong. The Armor is Kryptonian nano-tech. It expands outwards from the Shield so baby kal wasn’t dressed in it. Jor-El was a scientist but that doesn’t mean he would leave his son no way to protect himself.
After The Avengers and what the Marvel Studios has been doing since Iron Man, a “grim-dark Superman” will make DC and Warner look stupid. Just because it worked for Batman it doesn’t mean the same formula can be applied to Superman. No one is asking for a remake of the 70’s movie (btw, Hollywood in the 70’s was much darker than today: Godfather, Serpico, The Exorcist, etc.), just a proper, contemporary take on Superman… and not the boring mess that was Singer’s Superman Returns.
@Hank_Henshaw91 Not grim-dark, Hank_Henshaw91. Obviously you did not see the trailer. Superman is the embodiment of doing what’s right, being THE hero people think of when they think superhero. The trailer we’ve already seen at no point suggested that Superman himself would be evil, or dark, or that his world would be a grim and terrible place. The character looked confused and unsure in the trailer, but that’s not grim and dark. The point is to come at it from a different angle. It’s not all black-and-white “Happy and campy” and “Grim-Dark”. Man of Steel looks like it’s somewhere in-between, and I can’t help but suspect it will have people struck with “the feels”.
making superman dark will not be original, i am getting tired of all these superhero movies having a dark, moody feel to them. It comes off as more cheesy than the originals. did. lol
You neglected a very important demographic about the two movies; In 1978 we were in a period of relative peace here in the US, the Vietnam war had ended just a few years earlier, and the economy was on an up swing, so people wanted to see upbeat "feel good" movies. Currently we are about to enter the 12th year of our current war in the middle east, the US economy is in the sewer with millions of formerly American jobs being performed in boiler rooms and sweat shops in India and Pakistan, seeing a movie (IF it manages to hold the viewers attention) that is "dark and depressing" makes the world look a little bit less gloomy when the two hours of fantasy are over and it is time to return to real life.
@AaronGone I agree, but the point I am making is that we all know Cage was in GR2 but few will remember the director’s name and so the actor will be remembered (for good or bad work) but the director’s name (for he or she is faceless on screen) can sometimes fall by the way side. By the way I haven’t seen Ghost Rider 2 and after what you have said I won’t hurry to do so
@[email protected] Maybe it’s because I’m a film buff, but when a film I’m interested comes out I always know who wrote it and who’s directing it. Acting, directing writing go hand in hand. When one is lacking the movie is lopsided.
I think Henry Cavill is a great actor who will bring a gravitas to the role of Superman as Daniel Craig has brought to James Bond. It doesn’t matter how good the special effects are or to some degree the direction, if you have a great actor and a great screenplay the film will be worth watching. Great acting can stay longer in the mind than the direction. Here we have both superb actor and director so there should be no excuse. Henry cavill should without question star in ‘The Knights of the Continuum’ with Snyder to direct
@Crusifious Screenplay, Acting and Direction work hand in hand. You can have a decent actor and screenplay but a crap director can ruin it. Not many actors are allowed free reign in their performance. The best example I can give from my perspective is Hayden Christensen, he’s not a bad actor but was crap in Star Wars under Lucas.
@[email protected] a good example of terrible directing(questionable acting too by nick cage, but the directing made it worse) is ghost rider 2. There were many scenes where the angles of the shots were incredibly awkward. In many instances, the camera wasn’t used to focus in on the performances of the actors, and was instead just plopped somewhere. i think the best example of this was the alleyway scene where nick cage was intimidating that guy for information with the mom of the kid. The camera should have been focused in on their faces, but was placed near the floor and zoomed out, making the scene incredibly awkward when nick cage was acting mental.
@AaronGone agreed, watching Cage flip out finally was ruined by the direction.
My biggest gripe with the batman films nolan did was that i never really felt like i was watching batman. I hope that his involvement in this film doesn’t do that to superman. I get really tired of the godhood status kids give to the guy.
I agree with ShazedulHaque. Once you said you’re not a fan, then your whole article became pointless to me.
if your not a fan of superman you shouldn’t make an article based on him, that was my first thought, my second thought was why refer to Nolan as if he is directing the film? yes i see the signature he left on this film but he isn’t in the front seat, Snyder is, then i read the rest and overall your comments on the film is relevant and to the point, your comments on the current generation is what people need to be aware of, i think this film is going to be a masterpiece in my opinion
Nolan’s take on Batman was a hit and miss endeavor. There were many fantastic performances, however, Bale’s was not one of them. For all the great acting, the drama was incredibly flat. I don’t think a person in the world cared when Rachel died and Harvey had half his face burned off. Batman’s tech was fantastically believable, but the character was not believable as a skilled hand-to-hand combatant. For all its much-touted “realism”, the plots were silly and any potentially interesting conflicts (spying on the masses in TDK, for example) were dealt with in a sophomoric manner.
All in all I think Nolan’s Bat-film, while bringing interesting elements to the genre, is on the whole horribly over-rated. I hope his role in Man of Steel is minimal.
@Godzillaf Bale was the main downfall of the nolan batman’s in my opinion, I liked the movies but Batman is supposed to be damaged but never show it, bale was way to emotional. As far as his role in Man of Steel you have many how go on and on on how it’s his film and even some who think he’s directing. He helped write the story with goyer, but goyer alone wrote the screenplay and of course zack snyder is directing, nolan is producing but has spoken on the fact that he’s more their for technical guidance not story.
I do not get this requirement that Superman must relate. He’s too powerful, he’s too good, he’s too noble…he has to be some whiney emo brat shrouded in darkness and suffering a full-blown identity crisis before he can be accepted or understood by the human race-what a crock! The intrigue of Superman is that he is more powerful than us, and he utilizes his superiority to serve rather than dominate. His intrigue is not found in the power that comes from his Kryptonian origin, his intrigue is in the humility he gained from his Smallville upbringing. Considering the world we live in, a hero who is filled with integrity, honor, and truth should be absolutely mesmerizing. We should be inspired by the idea of Superman, but instead we demand that such an idea be darkened and sullied so it bears more resemblance to our depravity. That’s a great plan…instead of stepping into the light let’s turn out all the lights so it is dark everywhere.
@qaliber This is something I often get into debates on. Within entertainment, be it film, book or comics why is it everyone thinks there is no room for multiple types of characters. There can be relatable ones, dark and brooding ones and the ones like Superman. A character that inspires us to be better and to be blunt Shames us, that we realize were selfish greedy children. The Jor-El trailer put it best “they will follow behind you, they will stumble, and they will fall. But one day, they will join you in the sun.” As far as Man of Steel, most hear the word dark and automatically think he’s going to be brooding and angry. while it does appear to be some emotional elements causing him pain, your father dying, finding out you’re an alien and your people are dead and the only ones who survived are evil, think would depress anyone. But it seems he overcomes it to stand up for his new world. When they say dark (and snyder has even spoke on this) it is the world that is darker. For a long while now Superman has always been shown in a kind of Utopia setting. Metropolis has been shown as kind of an opposite to gotham. That worked in the 70’s and in the comics and cartoons. If a god-like being appeared, said he was an alien from another planet, he would be met with mistrust and suspicion. Not to mention that others of his race are trying to subjugate to world.
@[email protected]
Well said, Curtis, I concur. Further, to clarify, my “darkness” rant was relative to the article and not MoS. Everywhere I turn, I hear Superman needs to be dark like Batman because Batman was successful…or he needs to be dark so he will be attractive to the youth of today. It is these types of sentiments I was railing against. I know and understand that the back drop needs to keep up with the times. However, the core of the character needs to retain its beacon-like qualities. I had heard the Snyder clarification you mentioned, and hope that it pans out. I am looking forward to MoS, and am optimistic that the “dark” elements will stay in the story’s backdrop. The “how would the world realistically react to a powerful alien” angle is fine, I don’t have any problems with it at all. I personally think the interesting part of the story is the Smallville/humility angle-but that is preference, and I am fine with a story that explores the alien side of things. As long as the exploration doesn’t derail the fundamentals of the character. Even if they label that derailment with a euphemism like “modernize” or “relative”; I am still not good with it. Thus far, I don’t see that in the MoS stuff, and am waiting to be dazzled like everyone else. When it comes down to it, I just want Superman to remain a hero that puts other first. I don’t care if his ideals have fallen out of popularity, leave him be-don’t rewrite him to make him fit our twisted era. I would rather Superman continue to stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way…even if it means he is less attractive to our modern time, even if it means that kids don’t relate, and even if it means he earns a few dollars less at the box office.
@[email protected]
I’m keeping an open mind about this film. As long as they produce a complete and consistent film that doesn’t insult the audience’s intelligence then I don’t mind..
I’d much prefer a Superman film that doesn’t depend on the ‘dark’ motif however ‘dark’ is the buzzword nowadays ( see the upcoming Thor and Star Trek films and no doubt the next star wars film will boast a ‘darker’ storyline )
Looking at some of the other responses the Intellectual idea of a Superman is a complex, compelling and potentially worrying one . However I think the Superman we know is far less complex . At heart Superman is a helper … hes the plumber. who saves the day . He fixes our pipes but he doesn’t alter the entire nation’s sewage system. He’s not a leader. He’s the super working man. Or at least he used to be
Perhaps film-makers now want to turn him into a super soldier. No more piping , he fights wars. His costume looks more utilitarian. Someone suggested earlier that this costume was some sort of kryptonian battle suit – he was born to fight.. His Super Abilities weapons , rather than tools
If the world in which Superman lives is made darker its our doing. Hollywood glamorises war and conflict without consequence and regret and we invite war into our homes without question
I don’t think multiple versions of the same character should exist – at least not in movies. I don’t follow comics so I don’t know how well the ‘parallel universe’ universe thing works there but the whole alternate universe Star Trek thing is annoying and its sad that in few years time the only viable Star trek will be this retro-1950/60’s pot-boiler that jj-abrams has created.
I prefer a Superman who chooses to be one of us because he can see the good in us . He’s not the aloof sun-god as in superman returns or the super-soldier but rather the guy with ordinary values who can run a little faster , see a little clearer , leap a little higher than the rest of us.
@[email protected] The New 52 comic has Superman’s suit as a battle suit of sorts (as far as I know) this was because his powers were back to where they were in the 30’s. As far as I can tell from the film, going by the pictures and action figures, his suit is not a battle suit but merely Kryptonian garb. Superman has fought many wars in his 70+ years, Mongol, Braniac, Zod and of course Darksied. Any one of these would subjugate or just outright destroy Earth without Superman fighting them. This isn’t a parallel universe like the Star Trek film ( Star Trek has always been full of alternate universes….Terran Empire) just a new film, like the new batman films were not alternate universes of Burton’s. Superman is simple in his motives but he’s by no means a completely simple character. As far as the “Dark” aspect being used now, I agree it is being Overused, but every hero has , as Joseph Campbell called it, their “Belly of the Whale” stage. When they are at their absolute lowest point and are reforged anew. Thor 2’s title refers more to an actual world, the dark world is the home of the Dark Elves, at least that is what I’ve seen.
@[email protected] yes superman like all heroes have had battles - its the core of the character im thinking about and how that might be changed to suit todays audience. Superman II is considered by some people ( a lot ? ) as the best of the Reeve quartet because of its direct action plot and big scale battles . You mention a few adveraries and i think the producers will almost certainly concentrate on straight mano o mano conflicts in future films rather than the ill-fated ‘what if’ scenarios of superman III and IV. Abram’s Star Trek’s annoying because previously the crew ( and audience ) always returned to their own timeline - this time we’re forever stuck in this timeline until the box office runs out.
@[email protected] I can see how that might be annoying to some, but it was a choice they knew would piss some off. It gave them alot more freedom though in terms of story, they can pretty much do what they want without messing with decades of storyline. You said you don’t follow comics but the alternate universes are almost a core concept in comics. Within Superman’s history, Comics in the golden and silver age were less cohesive than they are now (and thats saying alot) with every writer coming in putting their own spin on the character and in superman’s case adding powers (at one point he could produce an army of pint sized Superman and was kind of a dick to them). In the 80’s they attempted to rectify that with Crisis, a huge storyline about a cosmic being threatening the multiverse. That storyline defined supermans character and power set for the next few decades. As far as fighting, for me Superman I and II are the best with three as only having one good part (evil superman vs clark) and four making no sense whatsoever. I am excited to see Superman and Zod throw down, but there is a deeper story there, basically the only remaining people his world want to destroy his new world, and he makes a choice to defend us.
@[email protected] thats why i dont follow comics ! lol to be fair i used to follow marvel in my younger days . Marvels strength was its strong story arcs while DC suffered from one-off stories ( like the midget supermen i guess ! ) . However Marvel’s story arcs seemed to avoid reboots and parallel universes for a while - I switched back on to comics with Gaiman’s Sandman and Alan Moores Miracleman which were the ultimate reboots but still seemed linear in its storyline and development . Still i cant knock the parallel approach to the art-form - its worked for the past few decades and maybe it will work in a cinematic form
One thing though a film is released every two years compared to every month for a comic ? That will be a factor affecting complex intertwining plots
Wonder how things will look as the internet develops and stories are released solely online ?
As for jj-abrams star Trek …umm … thats a WHOLE other topic !
@qaliber Superman is hardly a paragon in terms of his psychological state or personality…films aside he is shown to display very “human” emotions and reaction. No one is stating relatablity entails making him whiny and emo, but we have canon evidence to show that Superman does think and to an extent “angst” about his actions, and the things he decides to do with his powers.
You have no credibility at all in this article. A) You haven’t seen the new film therefore have no business comparing it to the original. B) You don’t even know how to spell the Original Superman actor’s name. Please don’t make me laugh in your face you hack. It made sense for Batman Begins to be dark and brooding. If they go that route with Man of Steel it will likely fall flat. Superman isn’t about dark and brooding, it’s about hope and truth, justice and the American way.
Christopher Reeve is Superman, all others are pale imitations
A big huge issue for me with this film (and I am as big a Supes fan as you can get) is if the rumors are true and they don’t use the William’s Superman theme then it comes down at least 2 pegs for me. It doesn’t have to run over the credits ala Returns, but at some pivotal moment when Clark decides to be ‘the man’ or he’s turning the tide against Zod, a big blast of that music to remind people that this is Superman would hit the spot.
It’s like making a Star Wars movie and saying ‘lets do all new music!’ Doesn’t work. Any sequels and remakes that have identifiable themes (and the Superman theme is ICONIC, no arguments considered) that use the original’s music come off way better. It’d be like a Halloween movie without the music, or Friday the 13th (which didn’t really use the theme and sucked hard.) Some things don’t need to be changed if that part of the recipe is already right.
The Superman theme is iconic, hell it’s my ring tone. But this isn’t Reeve’s Superman. Your examples are really not the same as all the star wars films and shows are part of the same universe, same with the Friday the 13th and Halloween films. The Reeve’s films are on a pedestal on their own. One of Superman Returns greatest flaws to me was trying to be part of the Reeve’s Superman world. Man of Steel is an entirely different universe all together, to constantly compare it to the Reeve Films is unfair and unnecessary.
I hope they don’t go as “dark” as the Batman films with this one. In my opinion Batman and Superman are like yin and yang as far as mainstream superheroes go, and it’s just not portraying the character correctly if The Man of Steel is a super dark film. I don’t mind some darkness, there has to be. How couldn’t there be when an entire planet meets it’s end? But I just hope that the theme, in the end, is light and hope. Definitely looking forward to the movie either way, but this is just what I want to see in a Superman film.
I wish you would have mentioned Hunger Games and Twilight earlier in the article, that way I would have known to stop reading then. This article gets so many things wrong that it’s laughable.
Franchesca Davis- “The 78 movie wasn’t dark”
Me-” Um,…Both of “Kal El’s” parents die………Pa Kent dies………Lois Lane dies……..okay, how is this not dark?
@Cyborgjoe when people talk about Dark they refer generally to the ‘tone’ of the movie rather than events - for instance a lot of people die in indiana jones movies but you wouldnt normally class them a ‘dark’ movies.
@[email protected] most of those are funny deaths. Lois is buried slowly and had the life choked out of her. That scene still gets to me as a grown man. And the scene with all the Kryptonians falling into oblivion?
@[email protected]@Cyborgjoe death is death . i wouldnt call them funny but i know what you mean . i think whats important is the context within which these events occur. for instance man getting sliced in a indiana jones movie as opposed to man getting sliced at end of dirty harry movie. Superman 1978 was an epic romance adventure - thats its context. i remember watching those scenes you menitioned back in 78/79 and thinking wow i never expected to see that but they add weight to the film but they dont alter the tone of the film.
@[email protected] guess I can see where you’re coming from.
Something that annoys me is when people say the Superman movie is rediculous because when he’s Clark Kent, he just puts on a pair of glasses, when in reality, he doesn’t just put on glasses, he changes his personality, his speaking voice, his mannerisms. You need to realize that they had to make Superman and Clark Kent as different as possible and still stay close to the source material, which not an easy task given that in the comics he just puts on a pair of glasses, so it mostly relied on Chris Reeve to make sure that Clark didn’t just put on a pair of glasses, he put on a different personality. Even in Superman 2, Lois begins to think Clark is Superman just because of the way he looks and even risks her life to prove a point.
@Cyborgjoe That’s ridiculous. Anyone looking at a man who looks exactly like another man, save for a pair of glasses, would still know they were the same person; regardless if that man donned a different personality, different voice, or different mannerism. You’re living in your comic book world if you think anyone would think otherwise.
Tinwoods @Cyborgjoe Masters of disguise do it all the time, and that is how people need to view it. Clark is the worlds most consummate actor. It was once broken down within the comics as such. The lens of his glasses dull his alien blue eyes, he heightens his voice a bit and slouches, many don’t even realize how much height you lose when you slouch. But the main thing is the personality. Clark made his impression before Superman. Clark relies on humanities lack of attention, no one can believe bumbling, geeky Clark is The Man of Steel. But, this is not to say it hasn’t been pierced by someone paying attention, but Kal-El had all kinds of other tricks up is cape to deal with that.
@[email protected] Not just that, but you have to remember that without a mask, people aren’t really looking for a secret identity. Batman wears a mask, so people are going to wonder what’s under it. Superman does not.
I remember coming to this realization during the Avengers movie. If Thor were running around Manhattan, would anyone be trying to find out who he is in his off time? No. If you were in the Daily Planet building you’d just think that guy you work with would kind of look like Superman if he took his glasses off.
@CurtisAndrewHedrick for some reason i cant see your response on this page only on email ( ??) my argument is that jor-el; sent his son to a planet with a yellow sun so he wouldnt need protection ? i guess this ‘supersuit’ is a recent abstraction to bring superman more in line with the likes of barman and our own current fascination with technology . maybe in 5 or 6 years time as nano tech comes into public sphere , writers will reboot superman suggesting that jor-el implanted nano-probes into young jor-el thus giving him his powers when near a yellow sun or when kal-el reaches puberty or something. Thats the joy of rebooting - you can tweak a concept to fit current trends.
@[email protected]
Did someone say midichlorians? No thanks
…or dark energy / dark matter lol superman’s dna is made up of dark matter thats why he can Defy the law of physics and …. erm …..anyway … even though i quite like the idea of nanotach perhaps its best not to dissect superman - hes a myth and above explanation . maybe we dont need to know how he does something - we know his strengths and weaknesses already. However Is that enough? Or should writers redefine him every few years
I’m wanting the less than “gee, golly, mister.” type of Superman. Not saying that he can’t be a good moral compass or shouldn’t be, but people just don’t care all that much about Superman, because he’s perfect. Perfect isn’t bad, just that he pretty much didn’t have to progress to be perfect. He was already there. Sure, he struggled with death of parents, and home world, but that was when he was a baby. Even people with great parents and upbringings struggle to figure out if the morals they were taught are good for them. That’s what i’m hoping from this movie. To see his character struggle with temptations because of his origins, and then over come them. I really never saw that in the old movies. I think that’s what made Smallville popular.
people keep saying the new Superman movie is “dark” and that the film makers are just trying to make the character cool. But i think the fact is the character himself has not changed it’s the world and how he fits into it that is different. The Donner film was from a different era, and the world was different more optimistic and “happy” you might say. Now we live in a different time, but what i see in the trailer is a man with those old school values trying to live in a world that is so jaded, “should he save us? should he let us fail?” those are the issues he seems to be struggling with. Plus, he’s an “outsider” an “alien”, illegal in the worst way, being from outer-space , and anyone who’s seen almost any alien movie knows what humans don’t understand or can’t control we fear. So does he reveal himself, would the world accept a being as powerful as him, or would they fear an hate him. That to me is the theme of this movie, not being “dark” because it worked for Batman. We all have opinions but we should really just stop sometimes and see a film as a whole before we pass judgement off a 2 min trailer. Just saying.
very true, I have been trying to get that point across for sometime. another Aspect they could explore either in this film or a sequel are the people that people that would go the opposite extreme and worship Superman as a god.
Premiere was on December 11.
15th. sorry bad typing.
Couple of things about Superman the movie you were a little off on. It was actually released December 11, 1978. And remember when Superman traveled back in time, disobeying his father? Kind of a glimpse of a dark side there buddy.
yes but he did it for the love for lois lane ? - which was the point of the scene. Love conquers all that sort of thing. An old fashioned sentiment but i think that was the key points of the movie - superman as an old fashioned ( but never outmoded) hero in modern day America/world
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
I think what Snyder is trying to accomplish is for Supes to have an identity crisis, that of being a being more gifted than others almost by birthright yet trying to help and associate with people weaker than him. While Reeve was great as Superman, I thought the definite superman portrayal came in the DCAU. Everyone fears Supes because he could disintegrate them with a look, but that isn’t what he wants. He wants to belong, to have a proper home and a life that isn’t all about fighting supervillians. If this can be pulled off, it would be great.
If you want a real world parallel, think of a gifted immigrant becoming popular and yet, a section of society will always be suspicious. Why did he come here? He’s an outsider and so, shouldn’t interfere in our land! What agenda does he have?
Now compound it on a global scale of superheroes and you get Superman.
Casting, story, and casting. The casting of Man of Steel is already, in my opinion, the first reason not to see the movie. Have they ever read a Superman comic? He is tall, huge, and so is Zod. Beyond this, I look to the last two movies in the Dark Knights series. #2 should have just been called Joker, because Batman was like an afterthought,,, and #3 should have been called Bane. I have no hope for the Man of Steel. It will be like a Jean Claude Vandamme movie where he gets his ass kicked for most of the fight, then at the end he pulls out a victory. I will stay home and watch a classic on my home theater.
@jeepjake69 How Much “Bigger” do you want Superman to be, Henry is over 6 feet tall 6’1″ and put on quite a bit of muscle for this. You compare it to Christopher Reeve’s Film, In those while Reeve was 6’4″ He didn’t put on a huge amount of muscle for the role, and Terrance Stamp is only 6 feet and was not muscled either yet he played Zod. Comics always beef up the characters to show their strength, but what works there won’t work in live action more often than not. Superman’s powers were never based on how buff he was. And there is no reason to compare this to the Batman Trilogy, Nolan had a hand in the concept and is producing but thats it. Fanboys like to drum up and over exaggerate his involvement in this film. This is Snyder’s film, not Nolan’s.
@CurtisAndrewHedrick I want him to be 6’4″ and at least 225 pounds. In DC vs. Marvel Comics published in 1996, he was listed at 6’3″ and 225 pounds, I have other official DC literature from 2007 that lists him at 6’4″ 235 pounds. During the period when Christopher Reeve played Superman, he was reported as 6’4” and 225. Christopher Reeve was 195 pounds when he auditioned, but worked with bodybuilder David Prowse (better known as the man in the Darth Vader suit, at 6’7″, he was a monster) and bulked up to a verified 225. Brandon Routh weighed 218 pounds for the role, and a little padding in the shoulder and upper arm area helped him bulk up a bit. As a long time martial artist and powerlifter, I am 5’6” and 210 pounds, wear a size 54 coat with a 28 inch waist. I want someone built like me but 6’3″ at least. At this height and weight, I have run a 4.34 40 yard dash, and can dunk volleyballs on a 10 foot rim ( I can’t palm a basketball, but can dunk with an alley oop) so saying big builds make you less athletic and flexible is absolute crap, especially since I can also do the splits. Terrance Stamp as Zod was also a joke to me. I have a friend who was the steadicam operator for The Shield series on FX, and is now a director, having directed episodes of The Walking Dead, Breakout Kings, and is now working on his first major motion picture, so I know there are actors out there who can fulfill these roles. I’m not saying I am right and you are wrong, I am just saying this is how I feel it should be done. No matter what I say, I won’t be able to keep myself from seeing the movie, and who knows, maybe I’ll love it, but until then, the jury is still out.
@jeepjake69 What you say is very true, I am short but built heavy from manual labor but have developed speed as well through combat training. But while we humans will build bulk with power a kryptonian’s power comes from the physiology of the alien bodies as exposed to the Yellow Sun. A kryptonian who is a big fat tub would have the same powers as Superman as well as a rail thin Kryptonian. Physical features are important, but not as much as acting ability, you might have an actor who fits superman physically but couldn’t pull it off performance wise. The planets aligned when Reeve was cast, he had it all, the look, the acting ability even the fact he was a highly trained hang glider pilot made his flying believable. Henry is a very good actor and I look forward to seeing his performance. Zod is a good pick for a villain but the sequel I would like to see a more obscure character…Conduit is one I’ve wanted to see for a while.
@CurtisAndrewHedrick Totally with you on Reeves, especially at the time period. Like I said, even though I’m not thrilled with the casting, I can still be won over by a well done story, especially if Cavill pulls it off well. I have a friend that I wish would have gone and auditioned for this role ( I have a friend who is actually a Director in Hollywood, mostly works for FX, but is now working on his first major motion picture) because this guy is talented, and physically, just mirrors the modern comic Superman. I get the, I don’t want to be type caste answer! Who better than to be typecast as Superman? I’d love it. Oh well, what do you do. I did love Christopher Reeve, and I do feel that although many people thought he was to goody goody, he put a lot of self conflict into the role. Shame what happened to him. I was told he was a very good man.
@jeepjake69 its actually what the actor / actress brings to the role rather than casting on its own - eg. Christopher Reeve , Michael Keaton, Robert Downey Jnr ? They wouldnt be many people’s first choices but look what they achieved. When Schwarzenegger played Conan MANY people criticized his performance although on paper he was the ideal choice. Though the film made money it was considered a big disappointment.
@gjlook I am a huge Conan fan, and I actually didn’t like him for the role. Robert E. Howard described him as being well over six feet as a teenager at Venarium, and short of his full height. Arnold is shorter than 6’2′. The films were disappointments for me for reasons beyond that as well. I do agree that what the actor/actress brings to the role is huge, but I believe there is a template that should be followed as closely as possible. In the Incredible Hulk movie, and in the Avengers, the Hulk is much taller than the 7 foot, 1000 pound Marvel Comics Hulk. Strangely enough, in the DC VS. Marvel Comics graphic novel, the Hulk is listed at 6’6″ and 1,150 pounds though he appears at least a foot taller than Superman ( who once again, beats the Hulk ). I liked Brandon Routh’s casting as Superman, but I found 2 major faults with the movie ( though I understand the Director wanting to use Routh’s portrayal of the character as an homage to Christoper Reeve’s portrayal) and like the move towards a darker, grittier, mood in the movie, but Routh could have done this, he was only acting as he was directed to, to bring a lightness to the character. The second problem was the villain, Lex Luthor. I have been tired of his character FOREVER now, and to see ANOTHER Superman vs. Luthor script just killed me. I longed for a building shattering battle against a super powered villain ( envisioning something like the final battle of Smith vs. Neo in the 3rd movie in the Matrix trilogy), and at least, we are getting that, but once again, the casting is disappointing to me. As I replied to another post though, realistically, no matter what I said, I will end up in the theater opening day. Who knows, maybe I’ll be won over. Let’s hope so. Thanks for the replies though guys, it’s nice to know there are others out there that, even though we may disagree on somethings, these movies, and the comics they are based on, are important enough to create this kind of dialogue.
@jeepjake69 yes ive seen your other posts and i think you are putting too much emphasis on strict dimensions . I think in all these movies the essence is important -ok i wouldnt expect the hulk to be smaller than say , robin - mainly because they represent two different things. I do agree a template is desirable - example of throwing away template is Daniel Craig as Bond but Craig does capture the popular essence of Bond . Chris Reeve looked like superman but he also captured the essence of Superman at the time - a good guy who really cares. If there is a template i hope its one where Cavill’s Superman can bring hope in today’s more technologically complex but nihilistic society
@gjlook You are definitely right about the differences in society. His arrival to America in the 50’s as compared to now is involving a completely different set of cultural norms and values. I still like my template, but you make a great point. The America that he encounters now is absolutely going to affect his acceptance, the divisiveness of opinion, and the polarization of political thought is astoundingly different than even in the 70’s for Reeve’s Superman. I have often given thought to an idea presented on (sadly enough) Saturday Night Live a long time ago, what if Superman arrived in and became Uberman, in Nazi Germany? Obviously, any decent hearted soul from any planet would realize that Nazi Germany was evil, but I’ve often wondered about him encountering another country first, and how he would view the world. I also agree with Daniel Craig as Bond being both a bold and good move for the Bond movies. I don’t know how old you are, but I am 43 and having been reading comics for nearly 40 years, and may be a little more stuck in my ways, and less flexible. I’ve seen the heroes and heroines of Marvel and DC morph in different generations, and have been pleased, and disappointed by many of the changes. What I speak of, I speak of as an ideal for me. If I were the director, and creating the movie, what would I do? So every movie I see, I tend to judge them that way. It is why I can’t watch most military, or cop shows and movies. Having spent 20 years with an M-4 slung over my shoulder, and having been trained to be one of the best at urban warfare, I am entirely too critical of these movies and shows to enjoy them. I’ve dealt with the worst the world has to offer, superheros, supervillains, supernatural powers, these are things I haven’t encountered, and always wonder if I did, how would it play out. It opens up new areas of thought for me, takes me down new roads and paths, that I can never really experience. Therein lies the adventure for me. I hope you are right, I hope I am won over, because Superman and Batman have been my heroes, because as good as I am, Batman would still kick my ass!
@jeepjake69 there is a dark and light parallel to Superman - Darwin, Nietzsche and as you say what if Superman landed in another society - suppose that’s why they say ‘truth justice and the American way’ . I think the theme running throughout all the movies is the conflict between the Individual and the Masses - Do I save them from themselves and how do i do that ? Luckily Superman is distracted by events and supervillains to tackle that dilemna and thankfully over the decades writers have introduced other superheroes to remind us that the Masses are not so helpless after all
@[email protected] They Have explored this quite a bit in the Elseworlds storylines such as Red Son, where Kal-El Lands in Soviet Russia. One where he was found by the Wayne’s etc.
@[email protected] Good catch man, that slipped my mind.
@gjlook The struggle with how much Superman should do for mankind goes back to Jorels first instructions, and why he should have a secret identity. America right now is a perfect example, the conflict between an entitlement state, or a genuine free market capitalist republic. If we had Superman, would we do less and just expect him to take care of us? You can find all kinds of political and sociological parallels between real life, and the struggles of our superheroes and heroines.
@[email protected] must admit i dont follow comics but followed films more - what was the conclusion to Red Son ?
@[email protected] been a while since I read it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son#Story best bet to learn the story. It wasn’t a favorite of mine but it’s worth a read.
@jeepjake69 its funny how superman came about in the last great depression and his alter-ego came from modest beginnings and served - not as a politician but as a reporter - seeker of truth. I guess the media had more credibility those days !! But the real life parallels with the poor economy and its causes then and now are not the sphere of superman i dont think - but i think we all need a helping hand but that hand (superhero or otherwise ) is there to helps us struggle to overcome the difficulties that lay ahead .
I think this move to make superman darker comes from the guys at dc. In the reboot of the comics, superman isn’t accepted at first. He is hunted by the military and feared by the people. he’s a little more angsty too. Its a move to bring a broader audience to superman.
Is it the right move? it depends on your position. It could be the wrong move for the character, because it changes one of the core characteristics of superman. However, it could be the right thing if you want to keep superman alive, by making him more appealing to the younger generation. Without the profit, there will be no incentive to tell more stories about superman on the big screen.
It doesn’t take making superman angsty or darker to make him more appealing, it just takes a good storyteller. The appeal of superman was not his struggle to do the right thing. His appeal was that he never struggled doing what he believed was right. No matter how difficult the fight was to get there.
@AaronGone Aaron, I really like your take on this. You saw this especially with Reeve’s Superman ( I remember comments about him being a bit to goody goody), in the first movie. You did see some conflict as he reversed time to save Lois, but throughout, the only struggle emotionally that I saw was his struggle over his “life” as Superman, and his love for Lois. He was, as Jorel said to him, a light for mankind to show them the way. I always love to think about what would it be like if Superman did arrive in our world, or even other “superheroes”. My wife by the way, cannot comprehend the conversations, and the time I take, on the computer, and with my friends, talking about these things. Comic books, movies, Alien vs. Predator, constant debates about things that she thinks are unimportant. I spend a lot of time working on the science part of science fiction. She thinks it is dumb. I handed her an equation I was working on (for fun, of course) and told her, if she can figure out the answer by the end of “Bridezillas”, I will consider her opinion valid. If not, then guess who wears the dunce cap in the family. She was not pleased.
@AaronGone I love this. I am separated, but my best friend and I would stay up for hours, just having a few beers until 4-5am just talking about what we would do if we had control and could make movies, and who would win against whom, and more. Most people do not grasp the depth of struggle and character, as well as the talent it takes to weave these stories together into a coherent, interesting and action filled event. It is entertainment, but it is also grounds for deep thought considering what would happen if these things occurred on our earth, and how we would relate. It takes so much more talent than taken a bunch of over made-up, cheap looking sleazy women, and throw them in a group and let them argue about the dumbest things ever. I love physics. Calculating the weight of the earth, how much force it would take to move it, what would happen if Superman were able to rotate it backwards. At light speed, you would travel around the earth 7 times per second at 186,000 miles per second. Science says nothing can travel faster than light, but new research has now shown that this long thought solid law of physics may not be in fact accurate. It is a little more thought provoking than, You a ho, No you a ho, ah go f yourself, I’ll rip out that b’s weave etc. etc. What happened to story writing? I’ll stick with science, science fiction, quantum mechanics and things my ex couldn’t spell. Seriously, it was like talking code around her. She was hot, but well, you know how long that lasts. After a while it is just like looking at a magazine, it’s nice, but you get tired of it. Still, I will give the movie a chance and go with an open mind. I just hope they don’t change Superman too much at his core. Good, decent, complicated, troubled by loneliness, and despising those who abuse the weak because they can. And I hope he kicks Zod’s butt. Even if Zod does break his jaw.
1. Main image is misleading. Article is about ’78 vs ’13 Superman movies, not Superman Returns.
2. It is ’10s, not ’00s, regarding: “Audiences of the 70’s are going to want something different than audiences of the 00’s”.
3. It is Christopher Reeve. Not Reeves.
You argue in 1978 there wasnt any other superhero films for superman to compete with - that may be true to an extent - on the other hand there wasnt any other fantasy films to learn from either. There wasnt anything else of its kind - a multi million dollar superhero film. Today Man of steel can borrow from at least 10 years worth of mega bucks fantasy movies - studios now how to market them; magazines ( online or other ) know how to cover them. Audiences are conditioned now : 1978 hmm superman , really ? i wonder what thats like … 2013 : Superman hmm ? really ? I Know EXACTLY what thats like. 1978 Superman was an enormous risk that paid off handsomely. 2013 Man of Steel is part of an ongoing multi media process that that is becoming ever more refined and calculated .
It makes sense to re-incarnate this character with darkness as the outer edge of his definition.
These characters have always been definable by the people reading them, and the nature of the stories have always been inspired by the times. In these times of difficulty, where the whole earth is touched by darkness in one form or another, it makes no sense to cocoon one or more superheros in a sphere of protection when they are ultimately fighting our battles, both physically and mentally. The superhero is a superhero precisely because he has that opportunity to engage the darkness of humanity, find the edge of sharp horror, lose a little of himself, and come out of the mess of engagement stronger in a way that he doesn’t understand.
Superman would not be Superman unless he was actually human, but of a different sort. Transported from a different place yes, but one that was of our humanity and yet defined differently. Despite this difference, he is connected to us and needs to learn about this connection, a life-line that feeds him so powerfully.
He needs us. And we need him.
Most people do not believe in superheros. This re-booting of the various franchises will engage the people in a new way, specific to them, bringing the darkness of the whole world to light on the movie screen, thus bringing the reality of the need for these superheros to the ones who need it most.
There is a great hidden spiritual inspiration guiding the world, cleaning it, bringing enemies together, providing boundaries to the proper leadership of the world, and breaking down the illegitimate figureheads.
Most people feel this inspiration in the underlying life-force, the foundation of all reality. There are those who are actively engaging this life-force, gaining instruction from it, feeding it with their will, throwing down their strength to the earth to set foundations, and ultimately win in the greatest protracted test of all time.
The greatest battles are being fought as we speak, the Great Superheroes engaging hidden enemies who provide boundaries to the general public by the force of their will without any consideration of human principles. It is a game, yes, but one that is serious and engaging the greatest evil of all time.
By the time Christmas and New Year come around, the world will be secure from an actual attack of gargantuum proportions. The superheroes have a great respect for these celebrations, and so when these festivities have passed there will be an opportunity to reveal these superheroes to the wider public.
When that happens the world will change in an extraordinary way.
I guarantee you, they are looking forward to it.
CK
I think everybody is wrong with their takes.. Look at the suit,Snyder is trying to make him more alien. As he finds out more about himself,he fights with the alien part of him. Trying to figure out how he can fit into society and probably doesn’t understand his powers yet. The suit looks aggressive and that’s probably why people are scared by him initially. He has to overcome that. It would be great if that was his 1st suit and once he figures out how to identify with people he comes out with a suit they can identify with. From the pics we see of Superman in his suit they look dark,its almost a dirty dark. Good for an alien look ,but not good for an acceptance look. It would be cool,if he got an updated suit like the suit in the new 52 with a collar. That would make more sense. I personally don’t want the movie to go all Batman Begins on us. It needs to be a little brighter IMO. And what is it with all these suits that look like webbed plastic really? Batman had the only suit that looks cool. Get rid of the webbed suits already.
@Goat the suit is just based off the new comicbook suit. thats almost exactly what his new suit looks like in the comics
I think there has been a lot of uncertainty cast on the notion that this film is being promoted by its creators as “Dark and Edgier”. I think that that is more so the tone of the film as apposed to the character of Clark Kent/Superman. I think audiences have come to be more prone to superheroes being relatable and having human issue as well as extraordinary issues to have to endure. We want to see ourselves in our heroes. We want to know they they have doubts and fears and find the faith and courage to excel and surpass the odds.
In thinking about the characterization of Clark/Superman, he isn’t so much dark as he is “COMPLEX.” If you were an incredibly gifted child, and you parents, although they love you greatly, instruct and raise you to hide your gifts out of fear that you will not be well received by normal people. You then become an adult and are dealing with whether you will use your gifts to your advantage and seize what you want out of life or continue to hide your truth out of fear of retaliation. These are the things Clark/Superman deals with. These are complex decisions to have to endure.
If this film expresses this successfully I believe they will recreate Superman for this generation’s audiences. Regarding the new suit; hey sometimes you just have to update the look. Superman has had subtle changes throughout his history though this seems most drastic because of the loss of the red briefs. But common, Red breifs??!!On the outside??!!!!
@RianDHunter
I don’t believe Superman is that complex. The things you talk about have been tagged onto the character in the past decade. Superman has the power to make a difference, so the question changes from what must he struggle to do into what should he do? That in itself is pretty interesting, but too philosophical for what people want in a movie.
Take Superman 4 for instance. It dealt with Superman deciding to rid the earth of nuclear war. With smarter writing, and aimed at an older audience that could have been the best Superman movie instead being generally thought of as the worst.
In the silver age he was Superboy first, and his parents felt this was a great way for him to make the most of his abilities. They didn’t scare him into hiding, his mom sewed his first uniform. The brooding Superman that fears loosing the acceptance of others mostly came from the Smallville TV show.
@RianDHunter of course your wrong, he is a complex character.. &even if those attributes have been tagged on in the last decade theyre a welcome addition. i dont know what kindof films you like, but films like TDK Avengers Watchmen etc have all proved that audiences WANT more intrigate complex &substantial characters.. not shallow one dimensional non philosophical robots you seem to be inferring
as for the superboy thing its absolutely ridiculous &something not even a misguided Smallville approached..
the key element youre missing here is realism. &realism (especially in cinematic context) dictates no SENSIBLE parent regardless of their moral leanings would in this modern age allow their child to endanger &isolate himself by stitchin up a costume &send him out there to fight crime while hes still in junior high
@RianDHunter There is complexity in that he always had an alter -ego but i agree superman wasn’t created as a complex character. he was a symbol . A good man who flew in the light .
I agree Superman 4 had the potential and its a film that would be better produced now .
I’m all for re-evaluating comic book characters ( anybody seen or remember Alan Moore’s miracleman ) but i suspect this current ‘dark and edgy’ approach to films is more to do with product appeal and box office rather than a logical and creative direction.
It’s easy, we are in a time that we don’t want heroes, We want real life people doing hero (and maybe impossible) things. Realistic and HUMAN characters.
If there were a man today who had super powers and was brought up to respect people, loved his country, and enjoyed doing good for others, would the people of earth reject him or laugh at him? They would be ini awe of him. Some would be jealous of him and some would want to take him out of the picture. Today in real time there are no superheroes. If this man/alien existed how would he act with regard to the people he loved to help? Superman doesn’t have to be dark but he does have to have human feelings although he is better than anyone on the planet. That might make him a bit cocky.
@HarveySmith The truth of the matter is that “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” A true Superman would be a monster.
@[email protected]
That is what makes Superman interesting. He can bend rivers, shoot fire from the sky, and take a rocket burst straight in his chest. He can do all those things, and could easily take over, and reign as a god, and he doesn’t. Instead, he serves. The fact is, it isn’t power that corrupts, it’s that power attracts those that are easily corrupted.
think the costumes great, but a little bit too dark, superman has always been bright, I guess that would still work with this suit design, would def be awesome, but I guess the story might have caused the dark tone of the suit!
Why does Superman have to be a hoodie wearing emo to be ok? He’s Superman, he’s supposed to be goodie good.
@JohnnyEdwards Yes, thank you
Times have changed bro, that would suck! these super heroes need a Dark and Gothic theme, the darker the better, it all depends on the script!
@JohnnyEdwards
@JustenAboh “Times have changed”?! I call bullshit on that. Why? Because Captain America was pretty much portrayed as a goody-two-shoes kinda character in his movie without any trace of irony or cynicism, and it ended up being a big success. If they aren’t able to do the same for Superman in his movie in this day and age, then what’s the fucking point of the movie? I mean, aside from the fact that if DC didn’t make this movie lose the movie rights to a lot of what makes up Superman’s mythology, which will end up defaulting back to the heirs of creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster.
@[email protected] think captain america being set in the 40’s helped it, they also have brought in for the new one the idea that he’s been frozen and everyone he new is now dead, so the new film may be darker and edgier
@[email protected]
Good point, but CA took place in the 1940s, a time that many people stood up for their country. Those men are regarded as Heros today. However, the Captain did take his goodness to the future in the Avengers, so perhaps you are right. Maybe people have trouble accepting that someone with so much power would be so good.
Oh, I’m excited. I always hated characters with shitty unitards. They literally look like gay strippers(no offence to the LGBT community). I just want them to make it seem realistic like the Dark Knight or the Amazing Spiderman. Also, when people die, it doesn’t make it darker it just makes it more realistic because SHIT happens and you can’t save or make everyone happy.
@CarlosGaringalao but does it have to have the dull, dark, boring color pallete. Superman is bright and brings hope to mankind. That is the character stick to it. And a Superman movie is about a flying guy, it does not need to be realistic. Just put on the tights and have him fight a villian of equal or greater ability. That is what made Batman great. He was going head to head with a real threat, one that he had to overcome.
the only reason avengers did good was because it was every fanboy’s dream of watching a bunch of superheroes on the silver screen…NOTHING ELSE…the movie itself was SHIT…LACKLUSTER crap plot and mediocre visual effects(towards the end)…
BatMan was a far more satisfying movie..i HOPE they do something similar and exciting to Superman and change his boy scout, nice guy image…
they did that with the joker and it worked wonders…( i’m so sorry but it was the character and not heath’s acting that people like…..the idea of warpaint instead of a mask…..subtle but effective…)
@SunnyJamesToppo I dissagree with that second last statement a little, heaths acting was absolutely outstanding, his laugh, his little facial expressions, and just the way he walked around were superb. I do agree however that people love the joker character, because lets be serious, he’s one interesting fellow
@SunnyJamesToppo the joker is a villan, therefore he should be dark.
@SunnyJamesToppo the movie was fun. Rotten tomotoes has 92% critics liked it and 96% normal folks who liked the movie. It was a fun movie. A great movie, not so much, but great summer fun. Batman was good too. I think Superman might be good but again it usually is scary when they don’t stick to the manual. Look how crappy The Last Airbender movie was. He stuck to the outline but was not true to the characters. It was darker and not as light hearted as the real show and failed because of it. Put Superman into the darkest environment is fine but make him the beacon of light. He is a light, bright character who comes and saves you through the darkest periods. He is the boy scout. Keep him that way.
I’m tired of everybody thinking something has to be darker to be cool. That is stupid. Batman is a dark character so to have a dark Batman works. To have a darker Superman just to be “hip” and “yuppie” cool is lame and stupid. We are tired of emo characters.
Avengers was not a dark movie. It was fun. Iron Man worked because it was fun. Dark does not equal good. Just stay true to the core of the character. Batman’s darkness contrasted Superman’s hopefulness and goodness. That is why the two are sometimes at odds with one another. They play off each other. It would be highly stupid to have a dark Batman and a dark Superman.
Avengers worked because the characters did not take themselves to serious and were who they were supposed to be. Hulk smashed, Captain America was the boyscout, Ironman was the playboy, big mouth philanthropist and Thor was the God of Thunder.
Superman stood for hope and what man could be after all he is a Super Man. Not the conflicted, emo bum he looks like in the film.
He is Clark Kent, a farmboy, nerd and Superman. He is supposed to be a bright beacon of light.
Green Lantern sucked because he wasn’t Green Lantern. Nothing heroic about him. He was a quitter, spent 5 minutes on Oa and quit after his butt was handed to him. He was supposed to be fearless but the dude was afraid the whole movie. It should have been an epic movie with aliens and fights in space and ended up being a cry baby quitter and douche bag. That is why it sucked.
Whoever writes for DC cartoons should be the ones doing the movies.
Here is a simple formula that works. Stick to the character. Stay close to the source. Once you begin to deviate from what made something great you lose. You start doing stupid things like making Superman a deadbeat dad of a 5 year old.
Hopefully the one thing they will get right is make Superman puch something. You want to give him conflict and make him darker then do the Apocalypse story line. Bring in a SUPER villian to go toe to toe with Superman. It is real easy and yet except for Superman 2 is the only time we really got a real villian to fight Superman. Oh by the way, rehashing that Villian for this movie is already sad.
@IamSamJackson it is not dark if they make him more human. They basically tried to answer the question, if you are the only one of your kind and no one would understand you, how would you feel? I would feel depressed but I would also find out why I’m the only one of my kind.
@IamSamJackson I’d feel bad if I had a bone growing out my head or didn’t look like everyone else but if I looked like everyone else, was 6 ‘ 3″, handsome with super powers I would not feel an inkling of depression. I wouldn’t give a crap out the culture I came from because it doesn’t exist. He is a farm boy raised around humans that look like Kryptonians minus the powers and even Kryptonians didn’t really have super powers unless they were near a yellow sun.
@IamSamJackson The thing is, there are darker Superman storylines. Death of Superman, Red Son, Earth One, and Kingdom Come among others. So its not like this imagining of the character is not without precedent. Earth One is a great example of a Superman story adapted to the times. Darker, with a lot of the conflict occurring within Clark Kent’s head, dealing with his moving to Metropolis and the death of Jonathan. And with cell-phones!
Also, your reaction to having super powers is realistic; however, that is not Superman. You can’t impose every emotion that you have or would have on a character… And if Supes didn’t feel that way, there would be way fewer plot lines.
@IamSamJackson ppl like you havent got the either mental depth empathy or understanding to even grasp the concept of whats being discussed here do you..
“if i looked like every body else &was 6″3 handsome bla bla bla” listen to what your saying.. NONE of that superficial bullshit matters.
imagine: your NOT like ANYONE else, everyone &everything around you is like cardboard or paper ma you dont know who or even WHAT the hel you are why you are where you came from.. the only thing holding you together is the fact two ppl raised &took care of you but also taught you to be careful of letting ppl know who you REALLY are or what you can REALLY do.. these are the things that come natural to you as breathing yet you CANT because of what others may think or worse do.
thats only about 5% of what makes up superman.. &a shitload of angst most normal ppl couldnt handle.. but beneath all that &what im hoping this film will portray.. is hope. its not about being “a cheery douche dumbass” 24/7 but having that strong sense of HOPE in a hopeless cynical twisted world..
Bats expects the worst &acts accordingly plans accordingly prepares obsessive countermeasures accordingly…
a realistic version of Supes knows its bad struggles with his identity but realises BECAUSE of who he is he can afford to take chances no one else can &make a difference.. &hopes for the best..
listen to the last few words in the trailer &youll realise that hope is what this new superman is all about.
its no ones making its just Time that has changed, maybe we could blame crowd mentality and prefrence, you could see what happened with the previous superman. . oh and green lantern people just thought it was childish for no reason.. just saying @IamSamJackson
@IamSamJackson Totally aggre with you.Superman is bright - Batman is dark. Superman’s power came from the sun, Batman operate in the night :)
@IamSamJackson
Totally agree, I was ready for a new villian. So tired of Zod. Give me Darkside any day.
I’m not a fan of this costume. First, if you’re going to have a belt buckle then wear a belt, not booty pjammas. Second it’s too dark. Most importantly, as every fan of the character knows, (though even the comics have gotten this wrong since the reboot) Superman is invulnerable. He doesn’t wear armour because leather, kevlar, chain mail, none of them compare to his own skin. His costume is just supposed to a colourful patriotic thing that his mom sewed for him. Making the costume look like it’s meant to protect his body actually tells me that Superman is weaker then he ought to be.
@Cyndaquil The costume is a joke. It looks like it is made out of basketballs. Stick to basics.
@Cyndaquil In many of the stories and comics over the years, including the new 52 and this movie, the suit was no longer sewed by martha but Kryptonian formal or battle wear. Some of the onset photos show Zod wearing a similar suit.
@[email protected] Kryptonian battle wear. ? i dont follow the comics now … but wasnt kal-el a baby ?
Wasnt Krypton an Enlightened Society ? why would they stick a baby in military garb especially when they knew he wouldnt need them where he’s going? Unless Krypton had enemies or military interests at the time of their demise ? but then why would you want to stick a baby with….. wasnt Jor-el a scientist ?
@[email protected]@Cyndaquil I said “Formal” or “Battle” wear. Within the Man of Steel film I believe it will (in what i’ve seen) what Kryptonians wore within their society. Look at what Russel Crowe is wearing as Jor-El. Withing the New 52 (i don’t follow them either but I’ve done a bit of research) They Started Superman where he was in the 30’s comics. No flight, not completely Invulnerable, and not as strong. The Armor is Kryptonian nano-tech. It expands outwards from the Shield so baby kal wasn’t dressed in it. Jor-El was a scientist but that doesn’t mean he would leave his son no way to protect himself.
@Cyndaquil Absolutely true
After The Avengers and what the Marvel Studios has been doing since Iron Man, a “grim-dark Superman” will make DC and Warner look stupid. Just because it worked for Batman it doesn’t mean the same formula can be applied to Superman. No one is asking for a remake of the 70’s movie (btw, Hollywood in the 70’s was much darker than today: Godfather, Serpico, The Exorcist, etc.), just a proper, contemporary take on Superman… and not the boring mess that was Singer’s Superman Returns.
@Hank_Henshaw91 Not grim-dark, Hank_Henshaw91. Obviously you did not see the trailer. Superman is the embodiment of doing what’s right, being THE hero people think of when they think superhero. The trailer we’ve already seen at no point suggested that Superman himself would be evil, or dark, or that his world would be a grim and terrible place. The character looked confused and unsure in the trailer, but that’s not grim and dark. The point is to come at it from a different angle. It’s not all black-and-white “Happy and campy” and “Grim-Dark”. Man of Steel looks like it’s somewhere in-between, and I can’t help but suspect it will have people struck with “the feels”.
making superman dark will not be original, i am getting tired of all these superhero movies having a dark, moody feel to them. It comes off as more cheesy than the originals. did. lol