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You could go on and on comparing these 2 to see who is better, but in the end it will come down to this everytime:
Gandalf comes back to life (or comes back in an alternate form) after dying (dies fighting also), whereas Dumbledore remains dead.
Gandalf cearly wins.
Dumbledore knew of and had access to at least three different ways to gain immortality.
1. The Philosper’s Stone (aka the Sorcerer’s Stone in the US).
2. Creating a Horcrux.
3. Collecting all three of the Deathly Hallows (and Dumbledore had two of the three by book 6, and knew precisely where the third was at every given moment — all he had to do was go find Harry).
Dumbledore chose to die, because he recognized the depravity of one’s soul that could occur even seeking immortality, never mind gaining it. Dumbledore could have chosen to live forever if he wanted, but that would have made him much more like Grindewald or Voldemort than the warm and goofy wizard that all of us love. That Gandalf died and came back had little to do with Gandalf’s power — he was sent back to Middle Earth to essentially make up for Sauramon’s betrayal by the “God” of their universe. That doesn’t make him anymore powerful than Dumbledore, particularly given the fact that Dumbledore had numerous options to obtain immortality and chose against it.
Dumbledore, because:
1. Gandalf isn’t technically a wizard to begin with.
2. Dumbledore can do almost anything with magic, Gandalf basicallycan only make his staff light up.
3. Dumbledore has an awesome sense of humor.
finally someone that agrees with me. “what about the white mage?” I Will take care of the white mage.” on that scene i tough this is the epic battle i was waiting for, yeah baby!!!!!! and what we get “i am not a man i am a woman” pup i say pup.
Gandalf IS a wizard, but not the Harry Potter kind. He is of an ancient order based on color. Also, he can do literally ANYTHING. It’s just that he mainly used defensive spells because he didn’t want to give away his position and chose to kill those annoying orcs with his sword instead, but he had before used spells to light fires, cast lightning, and eat away at corrupted creatures like the Balrog. He also has a sense of humor, they just never portray it in the movie.
Dumbledore. As someone above said, Gandalf can’t, or doesn’t, really seem to use magic (as a wizard should be able to).
Gandalf fight physically with swords. Imagine how easy it would be for Dumbledore to go against those Orcs. He has so many spells to choose from. Dumbledore needs to say 2 words to kill (Avada Kedevra). Or he could get creative and do things like flood them out or something (think of his battle against Voldemort in Order of the Phoenix).
Dumbledore is the clear winnner. Gandalf is still stuck with his old fashioned sword. Even if he comes back alive, its too easy for Dumbledore to kill him.
Harry Potter at times uses a sword does he not? Does that make him not a wizard?
Harry only used the sword when he didn’t have his wand and then because he needed the venom in it. In battle a sword wouldn’t be the weapon of his choice.
I agree that Dumbledore has more access to magic, but not because Gandalf uses a sword. Gandalf can and did use magic in battles — he used his powers to scare the Nazgul off, and in The Hobbit he called forth lightning in a battle where he had no other choice but to use some potent magic. Gandalf still probably had more limits to his magic than Dumbeldore had, but rest assured Gandalf could use it if he thought he needed to — though there were both finite limits to it, as well as additional limits that Gandalf’s people put on themselves so they wouldn’t allow themselves to be too powerful on Middle Earth (they wanted humanity to defeat Sauron; they didn’t want to be the ones who would fight Sauran themselves).
—
Lastly, while Dumbledore would have no problem fighting a magical battle, he would never use an unforgiveable curse. Never. He defeated Grindewald without it, and fought Voldemort in single combat on at least occasion (winning the battle) without resorting to it. The Unforgivable Curses clearly go against Dumbledore’s character — and he never would have needed them, anyway.
Dumbledore wins, but it’s not because he’s somehow better or cooler than Gandalf. Gandalf is at least Dumbledore’s equal in terms of being an interesting and compelling literary character, if not more so. It’s just that even Gandalf the White had restrictions on and limits to his magic that did not exist for Dumbledore. JKR’s ‘system of magic,’ while never really well defined, seems — at least on the surface — rather open ended. Furthermore, that magic is basically inexhaustible (Dumbledore could always cast another spell): one of the reasons why the ‘wizards’ in LOTR like Gandalf rarely used their magic was that their magic had a limited supply; there was a finite quantity to it. It could ‘run out,’ as it were, leaving them in a weak and pathetic state. That’s why Sauron (who was a being like Gandalf) created the One Ring — to infuse and trap his power in the Ring, so it wouldln’t be exhausted, even if it fundamentally destroyed him if he lost the ring for any reason.
Furthermore, if you want to gauge relative power, you have to look at their power compared to the power of other people in that universe. Gandalf the Brown was not even the strongest ‘wizard’ sent to Middle Earth to help defeat Sauron, and when he died and became Gandalf the White, he still wasn’t the most powerful being on Middle Earth — Sauron, even without the Ring, was far stronger — and when Gandalf left Middle Earth with the elves, he still wouldn’t have been the most powerful being of his kind upon his return to his people (who lived amongst the elves across the sea).
Dumbledore, meanwhile, was — unequivocally — the most intelligent and powerful witch or wizard of his time and potentially of all time in JKR’s universe. I could imagine, in JKR’s world, there may never be another wizard with the same potent mix of power and knowledge of magic that Dumbledore had -and I feel particularly confident in saying that since Dumbledore’s wand, which was the supposed to be the most powerful wand of all time, would no longer work for anyone after Harry dies (and Harry wasn’t going to use it).
Voldemort was incapable of defeating Dumbledore, and Dumbledore had an understanding of magic that far exceeded that of Voldemort’s, because if it wasn’t a Dark Art, Voldemort wasn’t interested. I have no doubts that if Dumbledore was willing to go to the depths of Voldemort, he would have easily defeated him, as he did Grindewald, but the lessons of Grindewald is why Dumbledore never wanted to go anywhere close to those depths of evil again. He saw evil and wanted no part of it, not even to defeat evil with evil. As the last testament to Dumbledore’s power and knowledge, he was able to defeat Grindewald in a much alluded-to great duel of all time — and Grindewald was the next most powerful wizard of Dumbledore’s time and very much the precursor to Voldemort, despite the fact that Grindewald had the wand from the Deathly Hallows.
……
Now — for the person who suggested Gandalf was more powerful because Gandalf couldn’t die, or beat death, I just want to point out two different things: 1. Gandalf absolutely could die, and 2. When Gandalf ceased being Gandalf the Brown and became Gandalf the White, he essentially *did* die, but was brought back by the ‘god’ of the time to make up for the mistakes of Sauramon the White — who had defected — so Middle Earth could still be protected.
Dumbledore, on the other hand, actually knew of at least three legit ways to gain immortality — and had access to all of them, if he so chose, at least by the end of Book 6. He could have used the Philosopher’s Stone, which he had access to for a long time, but chose not to use (hell, he probably could have made one of his own, if he wanted, after he had the first one destroyed). He could have created a Horcrux, but the very notion of that disgusted him.
Lastly, Dumbledore could have survived by collecting all three of the Deathly Hallows: he already had the wand, and by the end of Book 7, he found the Ring. All he needed to do was take Harry’s Cloak to complete the trio and become immortal (how having all three of the Deathly Hallows would make him immortal was never fully explained, but it’s something Dumbledore believed to be true even to the end. The thing is, though, by the time Dumbledore was firmly in Harry’s life, that’s not what he wanted, particularly given the pain that looking for immortality throughout his life had caused to Dumbledore (which is one of the main points of The Dealthy Hallows).
While I agree with you, I have to point out that only Gandalf’s human form could die, his spirit is immortal since he’s a maia.
He’s sort of like an angel or demi-god, but his powers are limited when he’s in a human body. So, even if Dumbledore killed Gandalf (assuming he changed his mind about the forbidden curses), Gandalf’s spirit would still be alive in the Halls of Ilúvatar (the most powerful god in Tolkien’s universe, and the creator of the lesser gods, including Gandalf, and the main creator of Arda, the world Middle-Earth is a part of), so in that way Gandalf can’t really be defeated.
So, to conclude everything, Dumbledore is the more powerful wizard, but Gandalf can’t really be killed, so none can win the battle.
However, I think Gandalf would be able to defeat Dumbledore if he was given access to all his godly powers (which he wasn’t in the books - except for in The Silmarillion, but that book isn’t even a part of the LOTR-triology -, so it’s rather unnecessary to mention).
And about Tom Bombadil, I don’t think he really had any major powers and that he could be killed pretty easily, at least outside the Old Forrest.
Though nobody really knows since Bombadil was the only one of his kind.
Just a couple of errors: Gandalf was Gandalf the Grey, Radagast was Brown.
Put Dumbledore in Gandalfs world, he would not know how to use magic efficiently. Magic is not a limited resource in Rowlings world. It might not be in Tolkeins either, but it seems to be used sparingly.
He used it sparingly because his magic, though infinitely more effective than JKR’s (when actually used), would essentially tell all orcs within a certain radius “HEY OVER HERE! COME KILL ME NOW!”.
Gandalf.
Without breaking a sweat.
Why? Dumbledore, although a wizard, is Human. Gandalf is not. Yes, Gandlaf the Gray did “die” and was restored to human form as Gandalf the White. But he was not killed by a human, and I do not believe that he could be killed by a human. He “died” as a result of dispatching a Balrog, another “non-human” being. Gandalf and the Balrog were both of the Maiar and are considered the equivalent of Angel and Demon. Tolkien refers to Gandalf as an “Angel incarnate”. Could Dumbledore dispatch an Angel?
I don’t believe that there were any limitations on Gandalf’s powers. He seemed to only use his supernatural power when he was fighting another supernatural power (The non-novel wizards duel between him and Saruman (another Maiar)in the tower of Orthanc, the Balrog, casting Saruman out of Theoden, etc).
I actually don’t believe Gandalf had ANY traditional “wizarding” powers. It is never brought out in the movies but Gandalf’s apparent wizarding power is due to the fact that Gandalf possesses Narya, one of the three Elven rings of power, given to him upon his arrival in Middle Earth by Cidran, Lord of the Grey Havens (Galadriel and Elrond possessed the other two Elven rings). Narya controlled fire and explains Gandalf’s immunity to, and control of, fire (Fireworks, flaming pine cones as weapons in the Hobbit, etc.)
So, although an interesting question, it is really trying to compare apples to oranges. I love the Harry Potter series. It’s world, characters and story lines, which are complex and deep, but pale in comparison to the history that Tolkien created to place the LotR within.
These 2 words are nuff said “Avada Kedevra” and even if he could keeps coming back to life “Avada Kedevra” not that hard to say hes not gonna keep popping up every 2 seconds but whatever they are both good serious just obivously harry potter has more depth with 4 more movies so you have alot more movies to get info about dumbledore I dont know that much about Gandolf besides him not being much of a wizard does more hitting then casting plus earlier somebody was comparing opponents, look at one on one fights gurantee dumbledore ends fight way more faster then Gandalf all because of 2 little words “Avada Kedevra”
ok so i agree that gandalf’s death was way more epic then dumbledore’s but dumbledore died for the greater good of the wizarding world, and the way they brought gandalf back (forgive me for this LOTR fans, i mean no harm, i also love LOTR) it seems kind of cliche to me, its like an old war movie where someone dies and they bring him back in the next movie. but then again dumbeldore didnt die while fighting a giant burning monster.
and as previously mentioned dumbledore had every opportunity to live but chose willingly not to, the two magic items used by dumbledore and gandalf, dumbledors elder wand seems to put off more of an aura of offense in fights, gandalfs staff puts out an aura of defense. on top of that dumbledore never used the sword, it presented itsself to harry in a moment of need, dumbledore never physicaly held the sword and destroyed his enemy’s. and as for dumbledore never useing the curses, he would if his life or harrys life was threatened and he had no other choice, he understood that “harry is the last hope they had, trust him” so all in all i have to say dumbledore is the winner. P.S both sides have AMAZING points and this will go down as the debate of the century in my book, keep it up :)
I havn’t read all the potter books but I think we all have to take in account that Gandalf was created waaaaay before Dumbledore so in a fight perhaps Dumble would win but that has alot to do with Rowrow creating Dumble with Gandalf in her head.
Harry Dresden would take them both down.
Nice
I whole heartedly second Dresden’s mention.
Yes. Just yes.
Ian McKellen controls magnetism, is versed in battleing thousands of superhumans with nothing but a sword. He fought a Balrog with nothing but a stick, he REPELS spells like the ones used against him by Sauron and Grima Wormtongue, he also silenced Grima so he could silence Dumbledore before he got any spells off.
I mean come on while Gandalf was woopin medevil ass Dumbledore was getting sick drinking purple koolaid from a clam shell.
Gandalf, because he is also Magneto.
That’s as far as my knowledge goe’s on this issue guy’s!
Ohh yeah and in Lord of the Rings the Wizard dude smoked the Piece Pipe!
instant win!
Gandalf. Yes Dumbledore had access to ways to make himself immortal however, he never used them despite having th chances and never would because of how much integrity he has. So Gandalf would win in the end.
Gandalf would defeat Dumbledore, and its visible in the quality of their opponenents.
Voldemort is a supposed to be a powerful foe to overcome, yet he was also incapable matching the power of a novice wizard (Potter). Dumbledore defeated Voldemort after a grueling battle, indicating perhaps that Dumbledore was not as powerful as depicted.
Similarly Dumbledore almost sapped his entire strength fighting off a few dozens water creatures for Harry. In contrast Gandalf fought the Balrog for eons of time in limbo, easily warded off a Nazgul, and dispatched dozens of orecai with a sword.
The world they existed in also has a major factor in the strength of a character. Middle Earth was a much harsher and dangerous land than the area around Hogwarts.
I don’t think it would be an easy task for either of them, and they would probably hold each other at bay with magic for a period of time. The last thing Dumbledore would be capable of is melee combat when is magic was being stalled.
Gandalf.
Middle Earth was a “harsher” world? Yes, because orcs are so much more scary than dragons, dementors and blast-ended skrewts. /sarcasm off. People are just playing to their inner fanboi.
“Similarly Dumbledore almost sapped his entire strength fighting off a few dozens water creatures for Harry.”
No, he was sapped by being forced to take a potion that would have killed him in the end. That he was still able to fight off the ‘water creatures,’ as you call them, is a testament to his strength and abilities.
I don’t get the fanboi-ism amongst people. Both are great and interesting characters in their own right. Both are best left compared to their own universes, as “Name” said. If you have to compare the extent of their powers, though, you have to do so through the system of magic the authors created — and the limits and abilities they gave their characters. JK Rowling essentially placed no limits on Dumbledore’s abilities with magic, save for the fact that he wasn’t willing to cross the moral line in his older years. Tolkien, on the other hand, placed lots of limits on the magic in his universe: beings like Gandalf and Sauron (who were the same kind of being — essentially angels) were essentially ‘born’ with a finite amount of magic, and on top of that, when Gandalf went to Middle Earth to help lead the fight against Sauron, he had additional limits placed on his magic. JKR never created those kinds of limits on Dumbeledore, so it’s nearly impossible to suggest that Gandalf would have more magical power than Dumbeldore.
People are confusing “power” with “coolness” or “like-ability.” That Dumbledore was probably the more powerful wizard takes awayy nothing from the coolness factor of Gandalf, or how well liked he is by readers around the world. By all means, I can understand how some could come to the conclusion that Gandalf is “cooler.” I would even agree that Gandalf is probably much wiser. But from pure power standpoints? Dumbledore’s power was nearly limitless, while Gandalf’s power was both finite and limited… but please don’t confuse that with me saying Gandalf is any worse for the wear.
Now… if people want to come up with a character from Middle Earth that’s bar none more powerful than Dumbledore, there is one that clearly exists: Tom Bombadil. Within Tom Bombadil’s sphere of influence, not only were his powers unlimited, but he was omnipotent. Should Dumbledore ever go visit Tom Bombadil’s little forest, he better play nice.
Orcs were only scary because they were like zombies: stupid, smelly, ugly, and there was a crapload of them. They weren’t the worst creature in middle earth by far. Dragons, the Nazgul, trolls, and Ringwraiths (they’re invisible dementors with swords and poison). Even Gollum was to some extent dangerous (especially to those stupid fat hobbitses). Also, Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are equally fan supported. It’s like the Twi-Hards, but fans of these series mainly watch the movies and judging by some OTHER posts in this topic (you seem to have done your research) some people have only seen the LOTR movies.
Both wizards are great in their own retrospect. It would be better to compare Dumbledore and Voldemort and like characters from like books.
Gandalf is a kingmaker; Dumbledore is a junior high principal.
there occupation has nothing to do with them fighting, gandalf’s friends include an elf a dwarf a hobbit and a man with a sword, dumbledore if it came down to it could have an entire army of kids who would held fuck shit up
Gandalf definitely. Only because the powers at play at LOTR are far greater than the powers at play at HP therefore making gandalf more powerful that dumbledore. All of you that said that gandalf doesnt even use magic-read the damn book, dont just watch the movie and think you know everything.
Gandalf is kind of a god, just a lower level( this fact is explained in silmarilion) so gandalf wins!
Dumbledore. Anyday.
Albus Dumbledore is one of the finest characters in modern day fiction, and wins that title hands down in magical fiction. Why? Because, he is mortal. Exactly because of that. He is multi-dimensional, neither a saint or a sinner, He is just a human being who chose to rise above his own frailities. There is something incredibly accessible about Dumbledore inspite of him being “the greatest wiz of them all” and stuff.
Gandalf is a great character but he has to be thought of within the LOTR context ALWAYS. Dumbledore’s character transcends the boundary of HP world. There is one thing HP has over LOTR, if not anything else. Its characters. They are incredibly human and ones who can absolutely relate to. HP series is wonderfully character centric and hello molly, has some of the most memrorable characters ever, Dumbledore being one of the best…
The best thing about Dumbledore aint that he was immensely powerful. He was a man who made terrible mistakes in his life, but realised it and CHOSE to be different the rest of his life. Now THAT is what is really inspirational stuff. He truly personifies his own quote: “Its not your abilities that define what you truly are. Its your choices”
How many cried when Gandalf fell through that bridge? I know I didnt. I also know the buckets of tears I filled when Dumbledore fell down the Astronomy Tower. That pretty much seals it. Dumbledore is a character who grow to respect AND love, Gandalf is a character you grow to respect but thats it.
In the end, both Gandalf and Dumbledore are fictional characters people. They dont exist. But if you ask me who is a richer character the more rounded one, definitely Albus Dumbledore. He is the one I would like to have dinner with anyway :)
Gandalf! All he has to do is use Blinding Light so Dumbledore can’t see then use Lightning Strike, Sword of Power (an enchantment on Glamdring which turns into a lightening sword), set him on fire or just plain stab him. Dumbledore’s attacks would be useless against the Shield of the Istari which protects him from magical and physical attacks. Plus Gandalf is also a Maiar of the Valar if they don’t want him to die they won’t let him.