The Movie Blog

All Fantasy *is* a ripoff of LOTR in the sense that LOTR introduced most of the races that fantasy is build around to this day.

At least comedies have human beings instead of stereotypical “one-race one-personality” beings.

At least in Sci-Fi the humans usually seem to have distinct personality traits - humans in fantasy seem to also fall in the “one-race one-personality” hole.

I should hope more fantasy films do come out in the next few years. I am one who cannot believe it has been three long years since the last installment of the LOTR trilogy came out! It seems like yesterday!!! The trilogy is probably the best ever in movie history when you talk in terms of consistency in acting, production, direction and storytelling…just pure exellence throughout. Not even the original Star Wars Trilogy can lay a claim to that since most people consider Jedi the weakest of the three and the less consistent.

It’s going to be hard for any future fantasy film to live up to the LOTR series, whether it wants to or not. The comparisons will be inevitable considering the magnitude and success those movies. But I hope that does not deter studios from taking a chance and discovering new fantasy material that will not only be great but surpass the LOTR series in terms in of greatness.

As for Eragon, I’ve never read the book, but the trailer looked cheesy…but maybe the next cut trailer won’t look so bad…only time will tell.

I don’t buy into the LOTR closing the door on fantasy series theory.

The real issue is a combination of cost, time, and effort.

Creating a fantasy world on the silver screen involves a HUGE investment of resources with the bill being footed a studio(s). The startup costs of fantasy films are gigantic. Everything on the screen must be built from scratch, usually on an epic scale. Throw in a large cast, SFX, location shooting, and it all adds up to be an enormous under-taking.

How many fantasy stories are stand alone? Very few and forget about a piddling trilogy. Many series span multi-volumes often 6 or more in number. The effort to take such large stories and condense them into a couple of two or three hours movies - shot together or separately(another issue) - is daunting.

How many stories - fantasy or otherwise - validate such a risk for a studio?

That being said, I would love to see a series of movies based on Stephen King’s The Dark Tower series - 7 books. It would probably have to be animated as one of the main characters - Jake is a boy of eleven or so who does not age throughout the series. But man, it would rock to see The Gunslinger, Roland of Gilead, on the silver screen. Think Eastwood’s The Man With No Name meets the LOTR and you get a flavour of the story.

Interesting reading. ROTK is my fav movie of all time, and I do agree that it has raised the bar for fantasy films.

And yes I admit it, after seeing the Eragon trailer, I felt that it resembles the LOTR movies and therefore dismissed the film as a rip-off. After a few days i questioned myself. Why I made that decision. I didn’t have an answer. So now I wait for Dec 15.

The ROTK was so damn good that maybe people actually DON’T WANT TO OPEN THEMSELVES UP in fear for actually enjoying something else, maybe even more, in the same genre? At least that’s how I felt. So I don’t think ROTK or any LOTR movies closed the door on fantasy films. I feel it’s the people who need to open themselves up for acceptance again.

I do think Harry Potter fits the Fantasy Genre.

I also believe that outsiders who don’t read the Fantasy books or play Fantasy games view this genre as all the same. They all got dragons and drwaves and fairies and such. The general public just brands it as the same. They don’t do it the same for other movies outside of that because they have more knowledge, interest or experience with the other subject. It’s mostly an issue of general public ignorance.

If Eragon gets above 30% on rottentomatoes I’ll be shocked and here is why. Most bad movies (Dukes, Talledega, etc) can atleast produce a trailer that makes the film look interesting. The Eragon trailer was dripping with Swiss cheese so what can the film be like.

The only way this film does well at the box office is if it has absolutely no competition on its opening weekend.

Fuckin great article man. Me and a couple of my buddies had this exact same conversation a few weeks back after seeing the Eragon trailer.

So John, do you save these articles for slow news days? I notice you usually come out with these editorials when there isn’t much else to report on. I’d like to see you make these more regular.

Does anyone else out there consider ROTK to be the least of the trilogy? I consider all three movies to be 4-star films, but oddly didn’t feel as engaged with the 3rd as much.

I for one think that its a good thing if the Fantasy flood gates don’t get opened too fast. Nothing kills a genre faster than everyone cashing in on last years successes (see the horror genre). As fun as Krull and Dragonslayer were, its nice to have films with budgets. Anyways, lets not forget that while LOTR was both financially and artistically successful, those Harry Potter films are doing ok for themselves as well, and I would dare say they are of the fantasy vein (though their success was not ushed in by LOTR). And there will be 3 more of those suckers for sure in the next 4 or 5 years.

There are actually a several other fantasy films in development, and it seems they all want to cash in on the success of LOTR’s winter releases. Additionally, most of these are also franchises, not just single films. You already mentioned Narnia, there will be a Narnia 2 (Prince Caspain), and likely a Narnia 3 (Dawn Treader) with a possibility of 7 Narnia films in all (though I really would be surprised with more than 5). You also mentioned Eragon, which could be the first in a trilogy (though its success is in doubt). Also in development is the His Dark Materials trilogy starting with next Winter’s The Golden Compass. With Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig, this one could be a hit. Also, there is next Springs Stardust based on the brilliant Gaiman novel. Lastly, a bit of a strecth is the animated Studio Ghibli Tales of Earthsea film, which won’t be realesed in the US until 2009 thanks to rights issues with SciFi. And then, there is the Hobbit, which as greedy as Hollywood can be, should get made.

Anyways, if you weren’t keeping count, since ROTK, there have been

4 films released (Harry Potter 3, Harry Potter 4, Narnia, Tales of Earthsea)

5 in active development (Eragon, Stardust, Narnia: Prince Caspian, Harry Potter 5, The Golden Compass)

5 that could be reasonably expected (Harry Potter 6, Harry Potter 7, Narnia 3, Eldest AKA Eragon 2, The Subtle Knife AKA The Golden Compass 2)

8 that could be made if the planets align (Narnia 4, Narnia 5, Narnia 6, Narnia 7, Eragon 3, The Amber Spyglass AKA The Golden Compass 3, The Hobbit, The Hobbit 2)

Seems to me that fantasy is doing ok.

One of my favorite fantasies is CITY OF LOST CHILDREN. I’d like to see more entries in the genre that don’t deal with all the expected ingredients — dragons, elves, wizards, etc . . .

There is an animated version of DRAGONS OF AUTUMN TWILIGHT (Dragonlance) in production with Kiefer Sutherland and Lucy “Xena” Lawless in the voice cast.

Personally, I’d love for someone to get really ambitious and film Guy Gavriel Kays novels, Lions of Al Rassan has been optioned several times, but hasn’t got past the scriptwriting stage.

As awful as I feel for possibly sticking up for Mr. Boll, didn’t people on this very site claim his Dungeon Seige movie is cashing in on LOTR, even though there’s no ring.

I’m not saying his movie will be good though, don’t go inferring that at all.

-Calviin

Along the lines of this topic, what do you think counts a movie as fantasy. Does is need to have swords? Elves? Magic? Dragons? Doesn it need to be set in some wilderness settings?

Is The Prestige fantasy?
How about King Kong?
Pirates of the Carribean?
Nightwatch?
Star Wars?

What does or doesn’t make them fantasy?

I am reading Eragon right now, and so far the story is a little more of the lines of Harry Potter instead of being compared to LotR. And by comparing it to Harry Potter I simply mean that the “hero” of the story finds himself in a position of reputation and esteem unexpectantly, and that he is young. Aside from that, not very much at all alike.

The “Fantasy” genre is defined as being Medieval in tone and setting. Star Wars is likened more to a Western than fantasy, though truely it is Science Fiction. Pirates, though a period peice is not “fantasy” as it lacks the medieval quality.

People blur the lines of “fiction” and think that it means Fantasy. Any movie that is not a “real” story is fiction, but there is more to it that makes it Fantasy.

Bah, I missed my point.

I was reading that Terry Brooks had been trying for years to get someone to make a movie out of his books, I think its safe to say LOTR opened that door for sure. 3 years is not enough time to judge the effects of LOTR, it certainly didnt open the flood gates, but studios have taken notice, and as someone said earlier Harry Potter played an equally large of a role as LOTR did

nord

I agree, Mike. The LOTR influence is unmistakable, and I can’t help but laugh when people suggest it isn’t there. As dumb as mainstream audiences are, I’ll think they’ll detect the desperation and stay away from ERAGON in droves, regardless of how many copies the books sold. The trailer makes it look like a joyless, murky mess. I see it making less than $100 mil.

First of all, even if the film ends up being quite distinct from LOTR, it is almost certain that it will be marketed as the new LOTR.

For that matter, the movie may very well end up ripping off LOTR even if the book did not. LOTR has exerted a strong influence over fantasy movies in the last few years. I even saw it in “Chronicles of Narnia,” which I liked (it’s the best adaptation of the series I’ve seen), but I felt like it was trying to be another LOTR, which didn’t fit the tone of the original story.

Doesnt “single greatest achivements in the art of filmaking” include acting brilliance? Not one was worthy of an award. Does this warrant best picture of all time status?

Its pretty, though…

No, its doesnt make me feel all big and important.

Look, I am not suggesting the ROTK is a bad movie. I think it is an excellent movie. However, movies like Ben Hurr and Lawrence of Arabia and 2001 and The Godfather are simply more sophisticated.

This is an excellent and insightful commentary on the genre. I’m much more a fantasy fan than a Sci-fi fan and I’m saddened to see that things came to a standstill after LOTR. It’s funny how the fans are doing this to themselves. They’re saying it’s a rip off of a great movie rather than shutting up, giving it a chance and enjoying it for what it is. Fanboys need to come to grips with the fact that it’s going to be A LONG LONG LONG LONG TIME before we see any fantasy on-par or better than LOTR - which was OUTSTANDING.

Fantasy is not a huge film genre and fans are generally happy to give a film a chance, even if it is total crap, just because we get so little of it. It’s too bad the talk of many who don’t particularly like the genre to begin with will ruin it for the rest of us.

And why is that Ben? Define sophisticated. Because LOTR contains more depth and layered story telling than any of the other examples you listed.

it’s funny how if somebody claims a current movie is one of the greatest films of all time that “critics” pass it off as an uneducated responce like films can’t be great unless there were fone before the 70s. almost like you don’t understand filmmaking if you didn’t like casablanca…

“the overall single greatest achievement in the art of filmmaking”? Wow. If you want to take out acting, emotion, and screenplay from the art of filmmaking, then maybe I can see it. Oh, and editing - don’t forget editing.

Just from this decade (to avoid the argument made earlier about films from the 70s), I can think of many films that surpass ROTK: Good Night & Good Luck, Syriana, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Sideways, The Incredibles, Before Sunset, Maria Full of Grace, Lost in Translation, In America, Finding Nemo, City of God, Y Tu Mama Tambien, Requiem for a Dream, Traffic, Almost Famous, Wonder Boys, High Fidelity, One Day in September.

And that only skims the surface.

As for the reasoning behind the lack of quality fantasy films, I think it’s a difficult genre to produce. I’m not a fantasy reader, but I imagine that the books provide the readers the opportunity to populate the worlds themselves with rich detail of their own imagination. LOTR already had a huge fanbase that most of these other books do not have. But I do agree that the success of LOTR has somewhat created that copycat mentality. And who wants to sit through the same thing, regardless of how “different” the stories may be.

wow I do like how people seem to think that other people cannot have their own opinion…john thinks it is the greatest achievement in film. John does. he never said “oh and anyone else who thinks differently is wrong” he only stated what HE thinks…jason your list contains some great films but guess what..john doesn’t agree with you. I hate it when people attack other peoples tastes and opinions….

I have taken the same kind of barbs due to my personal belief that I think the absolute greatest achievement in cinema is revenge of the nerds. the difference is I firmly believe if you disagree you are wrong.

however I am of the opinion that ERAGON looks fucking terrible.absolutely awful.

Who was attacking anything? John obviously doesn’t agree with me - he said as much in his post (but thanks for pointing that out). I just think he overstates how good ROTK is and I was giving my opinions on the matter. Isn’t that what these comments pages are for?

Revenge of the Nerds is terrible, by the way.

@Craig

WOW IS being made into a movie :)

check the news on http://www.blizzard.com , end of May or something like that

what is contrarian about my views on revenge of the nerds???

why is that contrarian?? contrary to what??? everyones love of that xenophobic piece of garbage you seem to have such a raging boner for?? explain to me exactly what was so great about lost in translation.please in detail as i am sure you understand on every level….it is hard for me to say as missed alot of the film due to vomiting caused by the overwhelming stench of smugness that came from every frame of that film.

You have a supriority complex i need to remind you there is no such thing as bad taste…just personal taste….